Podcast: Learn True Health with Ashley James – The Resonance Effect

332: The Resonance Effect Dr. Carolyn McMakin And Ashley James

333: The Resonance Effect Dr. Carolyn McMakin And Ashley James


Speaker 1:                           00:00:03               Welcome to the learn true health podcast. I'm your host, Ashley Jean. This is episode three 32 hello truth seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the learn true health podcast. Today we have with us the best interview I have ever experienced, not because of the questions I ask, but because of our guests. Now I love every interview. I've done over 300 of them and I've had the pleasure of interviewing some of the most amazing holistic health doctors and experts and all of them

Speaker 2:                           00:00:42               bring amazing value to the table, amazing life changing holistic health information. So I just want to start by saying that every episode is outstanding and helps us to transform our health. This episode, however, stands out in my mind and will forever stand out in my mind as one of my absolute favorite interviews, and I know it will for you as well. The interview was quite long, so we broke it up into two parts. So this is part one. And in the intro to the interview, my understanding was that her technology and her background was to eliminate chronic pain very successfully. She very successfully eliminates chronic pain like fibromyalgia, pain that nothing else helps, not even pharmaceutical medicine helps her system works and then we got deeper and deeper into it and discovered that her system does much, much more than that. It's over a hundred years old. It's absolutely proven.

Speaker 2:                           00:01:53               There's been a clinical workups and medical journals, articles written about it. It's worldwide. Over 4,000 practitioners use it and today we have with us the woman who is bringing it to the public and spreading it around the world. This technology, you have the pleasure of learning about it now, but in 10 or 15 years it will be standard practice in all clinics and hospitals. I'm very excited for you to learn about it here. First, enjoy today's interview. Please share with all your friends who you know would love to learn how to reverse disease naturally and support the body's ability to heal itself. I want to let you know something really cool. We just added a new tab to the menu of learn true health.com. You can find all the detailed show notes of every episode@learnedtruehealth.com so you can use the search function, you can search anything, diseases to diets to see anything about health that you're interested in and see which topics we've explored with all the different kinds of guests.

Speaker 2:                           00:03:10               At the very top of our website you will see uh, something in the menu that says Ashley recommends. Go ahead and click there and you'll find that I have accumulated my absolute favorite health gadgets and everything from what I have in my kitchen to what I recommend my clients use and who my holistic health clients to what the guests on the show have recommended. So I have all the fitness gadgets, the best books that I recommend, everything I have in my kitchen, all the health gadgets and all the goodies, everything that I have around my house that I rely on and I recommend and I know that you will love as well. So you can check that out. Just go to learn trail.com and click on in the menu, click on Ashley recommends I have my favorite juicers, literally everything in my kitchen that I ha I make sure that I have and use on a daily basis to cook holistic, toxic, free, healthy

Speaker 3:                           00:04:12               foods. So enjoy and let me know if there's anything that you think I should absolutely add to my list of all my recommended things to have in the house and home and in the kitchen. I'd love to take a look and know what your favorite things are. Let's discuss that in our Facebook group to learn trail Facebook group. I'll make sure I start uh, a thread and we'll talk about our favorite a house items and gadgets for our holistic health journey. Excellent. Well thank you so much for being a listener. Thank you so much for sharing the learn Trello podcasts with those you love. I know you're going to love today's episode. Make sure you also check out part two as we get into some amazing stuff in part two as well. I am so excited for that.

Speaker 4:                           00:05:01               Today's guest. We have with us an amazing doctor on the show who has figured out how to heal a chronic pain, especially fibromyalgia, pain, those pains that haven't been able to be helped by anything else. She's discovered a type of methodology that helps the tissue to heal and to relieve chronic persistent pain. Doctor Carolyn Mcmakin, I am so excited to have you on the show. I've looked into your work and your machine, the frequency specific microcurrent machine and I just have so many questions for you and I know that the listeners do too, especially the listeners who are suffering from pain [inaudible] pain in the myofascial pain syndrome. You get to a point when you're in chronic pain where you feel hopeless and desperate and we're willing to do anything, even take drugs that we know harming us just to gain a little bit of relief and your system has been proven to relieve pain that nothing else relieves. And so without a doubt, I know today you are going to touch some lives and change some lives today with your information. So welcome to the show.

Speaker 5:                           00:06:17               Thanks Ashley. It's really nice to be with you. It's um, it has been 22 years that we've been using frequency specific microcurrent and um, we do exactly what you described. That's, that is our goal to help every patient in pain who wants to be helped. And I had to decide and 19, 97 weather I was going to be the only one doing it or um, if I was going to teach it and it made more sense to me and seemed more ethical to me to teach it, number one to validate it, find out if the technology and the methodology, was it really doing what it seemed to do or was it working because the walls in my clinic were pink and I'm a nice guy. And um, it turned out on it, taught it for the first time in 1997. Um, and taught it rather badly actually, but taught him for the first time in 1997 that the results that we get with FSM are teachable and reproducible. And, um, we started out treating chronic pain patients and, um, have moved, have discovered over time by using FSM many other things that it's good for. So I'm, I'm excited to be with you and to share that information with you.

Speaker 4:                           00:07:51               Absolutely. Um, now you shared with me that you have a fourth thousand practitioners worldwide, so you have been quite busy since 1997 training practitioners. And Dude, that's amazing cause I imagine if each practitioner had w could see, you know, a hundred patients a year or 300 patients a year, just how many people, uh, in the course of 10 or 20 years, they have helped. And yet it only scratches the surface because of how many people are in chronic pain. And so I'm really glad that you are teaching this. So those who are listening today who are practitioners in the holistic health realm, uh, they know that you can be trained in this system to further help people to, to eliminate pain. Before we get into how this works and how you discovered it and all these great questions. I'd love to learn a bit more about you and your story. What led you to want to become a doctor and,

Speaker 5:                           00:08:55               uh, why did you want to help people? Why did you wanna help people heal? Oh, that's a great question. Um, I was 39 years old. We were, I was married with a three year old and a seven year old and we were living in San Diego and my husband was going to come up to Portland and go to chiropractic college and um, we're packing up a household and two kids and I stopped to have lunch about two weeks before we left. I stopped to have lunch with a friend of mine and told her that, you know, we're packing up or moving in two weeks. And she looked at me and she said, that's really stupid. I said, excuse me, cause he was going to go to chiropractic college and I was going to be the doctor's wife and run the office. And she said, that's really stupid.

Speaker 5:                           00:09:53               He just wants a job. You've wanted to be a doctor for as long as I've known you. I said, yeah, but I have a three year old and a seven year old. How am I going to do that now my entree into medicine besides just general inclination was I became a pharmaceutical salesman when I was 25 I graduated from college, um, was trained in sales, had a couple of sales jobs and then interviewed with pharmaceutical company and got a job with Riker three m in 1971 and at the time there were three women pharmaceutical salesman in the country. Wow. I was the only one with Riker. I was one of two in California and the other one was with lily in the Midwest. And so I spent seven years with that company, seven years with, um, heirs, American home products and then two years with Mcneil.

Speaker 5:                           00:10:56               So I've sold every class of drugs except for antibiotics and psychotropics. So I've called an every kind of medical physician. And back in 1971 and I was this cute little size seven girl and doctors weren't used to women pharmaceutical reps. And so they were most of them in their forties, 50s, and sixties. So they were rather fatherly towards, um, uh, a female sales rep. And the receptionist would show me back into the doctor's office. And while I waited for him, I didn't pick up redbook or women's Day. I grabbed either a medical book off the shelf or I'd pick up one of the journals on his desk and sit there and read articles. So when they saw I was interested, they taught me medicine back before managed care, one of my doctors told me, he said, ah, if you listen to the [inaudible], if you listen carefully, the patient will tell you what's wrong with them.

Speaker 5:                           00:12:09               And then if you listen really carefully, the patient will tell you how to get them better. So these guys were just amazing mentors for 16 years. And then we were moving so my husband could go to chiropractic college and my girlfriend reminded me of my interest in medicine and she said, that's really dumb. You want to be a doctor? You always have. I said, yeah, but I've got a three year old and a seven year old. How am I going to do that? So that the lunch was on Saturday mornings, Sunday I went to church with the two kids and the minister was giving a a sermon on vocations and in the middle of that sermon she said, if there is a what in your life that you're called to do and you're clear about the what you do that and let God worry about how, how is not your job, God will take care of that. And I went and it was like this door I had closed on myself 10 years before, cause I was about 28 the last time I tried to go back to premed and hold a full time job. This door had closed on myself when I was 28 or 29 just went slamming open and I picked up the kids after church and I went home and I told my husband, guess what? I'm going to go to chiropractic college too. And he said, how? I said, I don't know. That's not my job.

Speaker 5:                           00:13:49               So we packed up, we didn't pack up the movers, packed up a moving van and, um, moved us to Portland and a, we started premed. Um, and I wasn't sure how we were going to do it. We had some inheritance money. Um, and then my dad that I hadn't talked to in like five or six years, it was a little strange relationship, but I called them just to let him know that we were driving up the California coast to, uh, to Portland. And we got to talking about the plan and, and I said, well, they said, how are you going to do this? I said, well, he's going to go for four years. And then when he graduates, I'll go and he'll work and that's how we'll do it. And he said, well, that's going to take a long time. I said, well, yeah, but you know, and he said, well, I need a local, he was a produce packer in Idaho.

Speaker 5:                           00:14:48               And, um, so he sold potatoes to like grocery stores and, um, produce markets. And he said, I need a sales rep in Portland that will call on the markets. And the it just make phone calls during the week. Don't have to actually go out, just file a report and tell him about, you know, my company and the product and see what you can do. And I said, great. So he provided enough income that I could start premed. I started premed at Portland state when I was 40 and um, did premed for two years, then started chiropractic college when I was 42. Um, I did well enough in premed and the m cats that I had an interview to get into medical school when I was 42 instead of going to chiropractic college. And um, interviews are usually pretty easy, but that interview felt sticky. It just wasn't comfortable.

Speaker 5:                           00:15:51               Um, I interviewed with two doctors in one day from ohs you, I had to stand Portland and um, the inner both interviews came down to, uh, the fact that I was 42 years. How was I going to do medical school because I was 42 years old with a three year old and a seven year old. How are you going to do this? What did you children going to say? And it's like, I don't know. And so I, there were, we were interviewing for the January class, they're asleep, three slots and six of us. And so I didn't get chosen. And the admissions director for Ohs, she was a real, um, was really supportive and he said, no, Carol, you should, you should go back to Portland state and re-interview next year. And I said, John, next year I'm going to be 43 with two little kids. This is not going to get better.

Speaker 5:                           00:16:54               And so I went back to um, Mount Hood Community College, took geology and anatomy and physiology for fun and started chiropractic college in the fall. And um, I dropped out of school to take care of my mom when she got pancreatic cancer. I got divorced. So CARF finishing chiropractic college took five years. And um, so I graduated when I was 47. And by then I had met and partnered with a chiropractor who was a teacher at school named George Douglas. And when I started practice, I bought a practice. I started the practice. Um, George gave me a two channel microcurrent machine and um, it's called the precision micros analog machine and a blue box we call it, they called it the blue box. And back then microcurrent was just used with mostly with probes, sometimes with sticky pads, but mostly with probes, stimulate acupuncture points and to use the current just three tenths of a hertz or six tenths of a hertz, just some sort of current flow through the joint to help with local pain. So I used that in [inaudible] 94 and in [inaudible] 95, I had a patient, um, that had myofascial trigger points in her calf, in her, uh, gastrocs and our calf muscle. She was a runner and I'm,

Speaker 5:                           00:18:38               I had learned trigger point therapy when I was in school. And so I started working on her gas struts with my thumbs, which is what you do for trigger points. Um, just if you press and hold and then release and impression hold and release and press don't release well after about, so she came in with, they're paying at about a four after about, I don't know, 10 minutes of this, her pain went up to a seven or an eight. And it's like, okay, that's never happened before. That's bad. And since George had been a teacher at school, um, of course I, I called him, I said, hang on just one second to the patient called George and said, what do I do? And he said, have you got the blue box there, the the microcurrent? I said, yeah. He said, okay, you sticky pads, put four pads on it and set 18 on Hertz, on channel eight and 62 hertz on channel B.

Speaker 5:                           00:19:38               And I said, what's that for? And he said, I'll tell you if it works. So I went in, I put the sticky pads on her leg, I ran 18 hurts on channel eight 62 hertz on channel [inaudible] and her pain went from a seven to a zero and the trigger broke was gone. And so we said goodbye and I went back and called George. I said, what did I just do? He said, well, I think you broke a blood vessel in her leg when you were using your thumbs. Ah, because 18 hurts on channel a is the frequency to stop bleeding and 62 hertz on channel B is the frequency for the artery. And I said, what frequency? And he said, well, it's from the list. What list? And it turns out that, oh, let's see. Oh, if you want me to keep talking, this story can go on for awhile. Is that okay? I'm on the edge of my seat. Oh, okay. So I said, what list? And he said, well, Harry's list Harry who, okay, that takes us back to an osteopath and nature path from England named Harry van Guilder. He moved to the u s or to North American, moved to Canada in 1946 now. And he bought a practice.

Speaker 5:                           00:21:10               He walked into that practice and they're in the back room. There was this thing under a sheet. He pulled the sheet off and there's this machine and the machine had a list of paper, list of frequencies under it. So the background on that machine was that back in the early 1900 starting in about 1910, 19 eight medical physicians and osteopaths, we're using electromagnetic therapies. So frequency devices that delivered current modulated at specific vibrational rates are frequencies that started to be done in 1908 1910 19, uh, 1910. The medical profession created the Flexner report, which was to standardize medical practice. Back in 1910 there were no medical schools. If you wanted to get trained, you went and worked in somebody's office and learn medicine from a doctor that was a doctor or you went to Vienna and went and trained there. But there were no medical schools.

Speaker 5:                           00:22:26               There was no standardized medical practice. People used herbs, homeopathy, tonics, opiates, Co, whatever. And the Flexner report was an attempt to standardize medical practice. So about 1917, I think there was an addendum to it and that said, okay, look, drugs and surgery and radiation, those we know work. And back then there was also the budding pharmaceutical industry that came around about 1910, 1914. So drugs and surgery were to be the tools of medicine and everything else was not a great idea. So they lived with that for a number of years. And then finally in 1934, they got serious. 1934, the uh, I think the FDA had been created by then and the American Medical Association is what granted the license to practice. So in 1934, they decreed that drugs and surgery were the only tools, legitimate tools of medicine and that herbs, homeopathy, nutrition and electromagnetic therapies, um, were outlawed.

Speaker 5:                           00:23:55               And any medical physician that use them would lose their license to practice, which at that time was granted by the Ama. So the machines went on the junk heap. The research all stopped. They, I mean, back in the night in the teens and the 1920s, there were medical research societies, Electro Medical Digest, and the Patho metrics society. There was meetings and journals and a lot written and shared about how these physicians came up with these frequencies to use on these machines. 1934 the machines went on the junk heap, went into the back room, got covered up by the sheet. Harry van guilder comes over from the UK and buys the practice in 1946 walks into the back room and there is a machine that was built in 1922 and that machine comes with a list of frequencies. He taught himself how to use it. He used herbs. Homeopathy was an osteopath in nature.

Speaker 5:                           00:25:04               Path used herbs, homeopathy, osteopathic adjusting. He stimulated acupuncture points, use nutrition. He adjusted the spine. He was like the full meal deal and he got quite a reputation all over Canada, uh, for fixing people that nobody else could fix. Tumors and cancer were easy for him. He said that's just not that hard. Um, and um, back when Robert Rowan, who had a, I don't know if he still has it, but he has a newsletter called second opinion. He wrote one of his newsletters that told people that I had here is list of frequencies. Well, I live in Portland and Harry practiced in Portland for I think 10 years. So I had Harry's patients coming out of the wall, coming out of the woodwork I 30 phone calls, I probably saw six or 10 people. And among those people were, who were people whom he had cured of colon cancer, breast cancer, pancreatic cancer, kidney cancer, ocular cancer.

Speaker 5:                           00:26:22               Just that was just their story about w. And I told him I wasn't Harry, I didn't treat cancer. I was really sorry. It was nice to meet them. And we bid Adieu. So George Douglas Knew Harry from um, his medical and his theosophical associations. So theosophical society as a philosophical group that brought eastern thought to the West. And so here in new George from there and, or George knew Harry from there. George Douglas went down to Ohio, California where Harry is practicing in 1983 and preceptored are followed Harry around for three months. And when he came home in 1983 he came home with the list of frequencies written on pieces of binder paper basically and put them in a drawer.

Speaker 6:                           00:27:27               Okay.

Speaker 5:                           00:27:28               And then in 1995 when I broke that blood vessel in the patient's calf treating a trigger point with my thumbs, he f he had found the list and he looked on the list and he saw the frequency. 18 hurts to stop bleeding and 62 hertz for arteries. So that was the list. And we started using it on my fibromyalgia and myofascial pain patients in 1995, um, I'd done a continuing education lecture of Portland State in 1995 and so I kinda became the local expert. You give a lecture and then the people you teach sends you their patients that you've just lectured about. So I have all these fibromyalgia and myofascial pain patients to practice on. So 95, 96 by the September of 96, our outcomes and myofascial pain and even fibromyalgia were just unbelievable. They're just too good to be true. So I really had to find out if it was reproducible.

Speaker 5:                           00:28:44               Was it, was the frequency effect real or was it a, uh, complicated placebo effect? Because I was a nice guy and you know, the walls in the clinic were pink and first time I taught it was January of 1997. Um, there are about 2025 students. About six or eight of them bought the precision microcurrent machine from Doug Casey who was the local distributor. And by June of [inaudible] 97 we knew it was reproducible. So I kept teaching it mostly cause it would be a moral not too. So 97, we treated mostly mild festival trigger points in mild festival pain. I published the first paper in 1998 because I came out of allopathic medicine basically, unless something has been published, it never happened. Right? So I published 50 cases of chronic head, neck and face pain. Um, average chronicity was eight years. Incoming pain level was a seven.

Speaker 5:                           00:30:00               Outgoing pain at the end of a, took 11 sessions in eight weeks to get their pain down to a a 1.5. And that was really because I didn't know what I was doing. Now it's much easier because we know that you have to treat the, the underlying pathology that drives the muscles to be tight. But back then we thought we were treating muscles. Um, and then 98 stumbled, like literally on a way to treat nerve pain. So when you think about somebody with Sciatica or disbelieved in their neck that's making their hand hurt, what tissue is causing that? So that's what the list had on it. There was a list of conditions that you put on one channel and there was a list of tissues that you would put on the other channel. So myofascial pain is from the muscle belly and the Fascia and the connected tissue nerve pain is from the nerve.

Speaker 5:                           00:31:11               So there was a frequency for the nerve. And then what's wrong with the nerve? Well, it acts like it's inflamed. And on the list there was a frequency for that, just said inflammation 40 hertz. When we made the assumption that it was not to increase inflammation. So we assume that the frequencies were all to neutralize the condition forwards. They were listed. So to treat nerve pain in 1998 I tried 40 hertz on channel aid to reduce inflammation. 396 Hertz on channel B to address or treat the nerve and nerve pain turned out to be easy. You put one contact where the nerve exits the spine and you put the other contact at the end of the nerve. And nerves love to be polarized. It's just how they work and polarize the current positive. And, and any place from 15 to 60 minutes, they're out of pain.

Speaker 5:                           00:32:20               Does it hurt? And when they go through the therapy, is there a sensation? Oh, that's a good question. Um, no, as a matter of fact, it is micro amperage current. So that's millions of an amp. Um, by comparison like a tens is Milli amps. It's thousands of an amp and the tens devices make it buzz and tingle and muscles contract and all of that stuff. This is 1000 times less current than tens. She can't feel it. You can't, there's no sensation whatsoever. Um, as a matter of fact, that was a problem. Microcurrent was first introduced in the 1970s and was used pretty widely through the late seventies, eighties. By the early nineties though the physical therapy community had been told that because you couldn't feel it, it couldn't be doing anything and um, it was not effective. So it just like almost overnight, within four or five years, it just fell out of favor.

Speaker 5:                           00:33:35               Just wasn't used much. Um, but what they know about the current by itself, because it's physiologic, your body produces current. If you put a measuring device at your, at your head and another one at your feet, there is current flow between your head and your feet. If you put a measuring device at your spine and you measure out to your fingers, there is current flow between your spine in your fingers. Your body makes current on its own and its current in the micro amperage range. So back in 1982 not Chang was a phd, I think he was a physiologist, but he did the first animal tissue study on micro amperage, current and microcurrent, just the current flow, increased ATP or energy production in cells by 500% by five times. Wow. In something like 30 minutes. And if you took the current up, so that was anything below 500 micro amps, which is still sub sensory, you can't feel it between 500 and a thousand.

Speaker 5:                           00:34:55               My cramps, the ATP production leveled off and buy anything above a thousand micrograms, ATP production actually dropped. So by the time you get to tens level current that you can feel you're actually reducing ATP or energy in the cells. So you can't feel it. What we found in 1998, well actually in even in [inaudible] 97 what we found is when the frequencies are correct, the only thing, the only side effect is that people get stoned. It's like they get Jeff bland calls it this induced euphoria. They get kind of floaty and um, drifty and just, it's really quite pleasant. Um, and it's legal in all 50 states. So, um, 98 we found out how to treat nerve pain. And then 99, I was asked to join a medical pain management group in northwest Portland. And when I got there, there was a whole new level of pain.

Speaker 5:                           00:36:19               It was a whole new level of patient complexity and that was the first place that I saw a patient that had full body pain. Fibromyalgia pain level was between a seven and a nine. Um, muscles were tight. You couldn't touch her skin without it being painful enough that she would break into a sweat and I felt her neck and just said, wow, this is, this is not normal. And she's got this kind of pain all over her body following an auto accident that happened six years, seven years before. I was like, well, what carries pain all over the body? Well, the spinal cord and I looked on the list and there was a frequency for the spinal cord that's like, wow, okay, what would be wrong with the spinal cord that would create pain all over the body? Well frequency to reduce inflammation works for the nerves.

Speaker 5:                           00:37:26               So maybe it'll work for the spinal cord too. So I put 40 Hertz on channel eight and 10 Hertz on channel B, and she had pain from basically her neck to her toes. So I, I took one contact, which back then were graphite gloves. Now we use a wet fabric wraps or for even little hand towels, wrapped it around the neck and then put the other contacts on her feet. And the first thing that happened was that she got really relaxed and just, I was treating her sitting up, leaned her back up against me, and then she got so floaty that we had layered down and the pain receded from her feet up. It took 60 minutes any at the end of that time, her pain was a one. And my gosh, that was my reaction. Good word. Oh my gosh. And I said, I don't know if it's gonna last.

Speaker 5:                           00:38:31               This is the first time I've done this. Wow. So came back a week later and it had lasted for about two days and then it came back. So I treated her five or six times at the pain clinic, but she drove over from the coast in Portland, sorry, in Oregon, the Oregon coast. It was about a two and a half hour drive and it was just too much. So she stopped coming. But once I learned to recognize the patient, the history and the way the tissue felt and what the physical exam was, I by the end of the year we had 25 of these between my practice, uh, and east Portland and this pain clinic. So, um, I left the pain clinic of I think around September, October. I didn't stay the full year. Um, yeah, that's uh, that's another story on its own. So in October I went to a continuing education conference and I met, uh, a colleague from Western states chiropractic college who worked at, um, the carpet, what is it called?

Speaker 5:                           00:39:52               European College European ACC, a Anglo Anglo European chiropractic college in Bournemouth in England. So we had a nice chat and I said, man, I am doing this cool stuff with this bridge, just impossible group of patients. And I told him about the patients that come in with full body pain. That's a seven and one hour later they're a one and it's the only frequency that works to do that is 40 hertz on channel eight and 10 Hertz on channel B. He said, wow, we're doing a uh, pain, uh, spinal trauma conference in Bournemouth, England in March, February, something like that. Um, would you, would you come over and present these cases? So I wrote up the case report, but I had to find a mechanism like what is it about a disc injury that would make the spinal cord react so badly? I was telling patients that it was like they had an amplifier built in at this disk place with this disk was disbelieve cause they all had disc bulges in their neck following the accident. They weren't surgical, so it wasn't a herniation, it was a disc bulge. And then I delved into the medical literature and found out that the discs in your spine are chemically active. They're inflammatory, it is base the nucleus inside the disc is the biologic equivalent of battery acid. And so it's very inflammatory. And then I research some more in the literature in this journal called spine. And it turns out that the nucleus pulposus

Speaker 7:                           00:42:00               hmm

Speaker 5:                           00:42:01               by itself when it was tested in animals. And then this chemical that's in the nucleus called festival, I pay say two in four separate studies. Those, those two.

Speaker 7:                           00:42:15               Okay.

Speaker 5:                           00:42:15               Pro, uh, substances would strip the Myelin often irv it in 28 days. It d myelinates or damages the nerve. And then I looked at the anatomy of it. And this disc is in between the spinal vertebra and the pain pathways in the spinal cord are [inaudible] part of the spinal cord. And most disc injuries are on the posterolateral side of the disk. So this chemical injury from the disc, it's the spinal cord. They're less than two millimeters apart and it just strips the Myelin. So it's, and then I researched some more. So this is all happening on the weekend in my clinic as I'm trying to figure out why this works. And the disc injury didn't amplify the pain. It's stopped it. The disc injuries in the neck disrupt conduction in the pain pathways in the spinal cord. And then I looked in my favorite neurology book and it said that if you disrupt transmission in the pain pathways in the spinal cord, you end up with um, what is effectively thalamic pain syndrome, which is what people get after strokes.

Speaker 5:                           00:43:57               And then you read the descriptions of thalamic pain syndrome. It's what these fiber males or patients had been describing to me for a year. Oh. And so when you reduce the inflammation, so fossil, I pay say two is incredibly inflammatory. It is just, it's, it's incredibly inflammatory. It really is like biological battery acid. And so when we reduce the inflammation caused by the phosphol IPC to in the spinal cord, 10 pain goes down. So I put together these slides and this was probably, this is a Tobar. I started figuring this out and then a month later, one of my, one of the people that I'd been in touch with from the myofascial pain world was an MD from the national institutes of health by the name of Jay Shah. And he had come to the course because he had an interest professionally and personally in the treatment of myofascial trigger points.

Speaker 5:                           00:44:59               And so he happened to be in 1999 which is when all this was happening. He happened to be in charge of recruiting speakers for the ground rounds to the researchers at Nih in building 10 which is their main continuing ed grand rounds place. And he said, I have an opening in March or April for a speaker. Um, I just had a cancellation. Would you come and present these cases at Nih? I said, I would love to because at this point I had 25 by the time I got to NIH I had 46 of them I buy. It was clear I'd done it 25 times and it was also clear that nobody would believe me because the changes were too big and we started trying to find or figure out what, what objective you could measure. Pain score didn't count because pain is so subjective. What you can't do it electrically because there's no electrical measure.

Speaker 5:                           00:46:13               Nerve conduction doesn't work in the spinal cord. So I get to NIH present all these cases. At this point there's 40 of them, so it pretty much never doesn't work. 43 patients, they walk in with their pain as an average, someplace between a five and ten five and a nine. So at an average of 7.3 they leave in an average of a 1.3 and looked at this group of 30 guys in white coats and pocket protectors and crossed arms. And I said, you guys are the best scientists in the country. Somebody helped me figure out what we can measure with this. There's gotta be some objective change. So Terry Phillips was, um, micro immuno chemist from George Washington University that had just been recruited to go to work for Nih. So He'd been there with his equipment for less than six weeks. So he didn't know that he was about to break a number of NIH regulations when he came up to me and he said, you get me a spot of blood on blotter paper and I can tell you what they had for breakfast.

Speaker 5:                           00:47:37               And it's like, okay. So he sent me the blotter paper and I call the patient that we had treated in 97 [inaudible] 98 and we couldn't help her. And she'd had since then, she'd had spinal surgery, but she's still had full body pain and I called her up and I said, we've got this new thing that we're doing that might help you and I'm, I will treat you for free, but I need to be able to poke your finger and put a spot of blood on this. On this paper. She said, honey, you can do anything you want. Pricking my finger is nothing compared to what this feels like on a daily basis. So she came in and we did a blood sample at 10 minutes to 11 on a Friday and we did another one at 20 after when her pain was gone in her legs, it receives from the feet up for some reason.

Speaker 5:                           00:48:36               Well we know why it recedes from the feet up. It's because the Homonculus, the organization of neurons in the pain pathways have the feet closest to the disc. So the feet and leg pain goes first. Then the trunk pain and in a 70 minutes by noon she was completely pain free and totally stoned. So to about 20 to 12, she looked up at me and she said, is this legal? Yes. So far so, and then between 12 and 1230, there was another protocol that Harry van Gelder used, we call the concussion protocol and it treats them Adela, just, it has a really interesting and profound effect on patients. So when her pain was a zero at 12, I switched and ran the concussion protocol between 12 and 1230 and did blood samples at 12 and 1230. So we had these five or six blood spots and I sent them all, marked him up, you know, identify them with Pencil and sent them to Terry.

Speaker 5:                           00:49:49               And that was a march, April, probably late March, early April. And at the end of May I was supposed to present these same 46 cases at um, the Institute for Functional Medicine Annual Symposium. They're international symposium was held once a year at the end of May. And I'm literally, as I was heading out of the office to catch a plane to go to Phoenix, to, to present these cases in, uh, the lecture was titled, uh, Energy Medicine in clinical practice. Um, the fax machine goes off and it's Terry from Nih with the raw data. And there were initials. I knew what they meant. Interleukin one, interleukin six, TNF Alpha. These are all inflammatory cytokines and peptides, interferon gamma, CGRP, substance P, which is a peptide that, um, created in the spinal cord that mediates the transmission of pain. Um, endorphins. And this was 19. This is the early 2000. So I just acquired email the year before. There was no Google, there was no, um, Wikipedia.

Speaker 5:                           00:51:23               So I get to the hotel in Phoenix and Jeff blands walking out and, um, I'm walking in and I've got this data sheet in my hand. I'm trying to, okay, so the numbers are changing, but is this a big deal? Is this easy to do? Was this significant? I had no idea. So Jeff is walking out towards me and I said, Oh, I'm so glad to see you look at the data. We just got from Terry Phillips at Nih. Now, Dr Blends a phd, biochemist. I think most of your listeners would have heard of the institute for Functional Medicine or functional medicine. Well, Jeff is the guy that started it 35 years ago. And so Jeff takes the sheet of paper and he's looking at me and then he looks down at the sheet of paper and his hand starts shaking. That was my first clue.

Speaker 5:                           00:52:15               And then he said, wow, you're going to knock their socks off with this tomorrow. Because my lecture was next day. I said, yeah, I'd love to, but I have no idea what these things mean. Is this? Yes, there are big changes, but is that normal? He said, you know, call Michael Rough. He's at Gw, he works with Candace pert. So they wrote together the molecules of emotion and he said, he is arguably the leading expert on cytokines in the United States. He'll be able to tell you. Okay. So I called Michael Rough and I said, Dr Rough, Dr Bland said to, to talk to you. And, and, um, and I've got these, the cytokine data and I, I, I'm not sure whether or not it's significant. And he said, yeah, okay, what are the numbers? And I said, well, Interleukin one goes from 392 down to 26.

Speaker 5:                           00:53:16               And he said, it's like the phone got really quiet. And he said, what timeframe? 90 minutes. So that's not possible. Cytokines are hard to change. And, and when they change, they change slowly. I said, no, they don't. No, they're not hard to change the oil change like that. I said, what do you mean? I said, well, TNF Alpha, I'm actually opening up a slide presentations so I can read the numbers and get them right. Um, and all at 10 at 10 Alfalfa went from a 299 down to 20. And he, he sorta squeaked, he said in 90 minutes.

Speaker 5:                           00:54:09               And I said, yeah. I said, what else can, if Alpha goes from to 99 down to 20, interleukin six goes from 204 down to 15. Um, and CGRP went down, these are going down by factors of 10 and 20 times in 90 minutes. And he said, that's impossible. Unheard of. Who did your data? And I said, Terry Phillips, the same guy that does your data. He said, well, he's the best in the world as like I said, I don't how did you do this? And I told him about the microcurrent and the pain and the frequencies and he said, I have no idea what you're doing but keep doing it and keep me posted. So then we went to the speaker's dinner last night and David [inaudible] was also on the, on the podium. And so he was, uh, he was at the dinner and I'm, I got this folded up piece of paper with these numbers on it.

Speaker 5:                           00:55:08               And um, and he said, well, the subsidy did they measure substance p substance piece made in the spinal cord? Because I said 40 hertz on channel A's reduce inflammation and tennis, the spinal cord. And he said, well, substance p changes, then you really are treating the spinal course. It's funny, you should mention substant piece goes down from 132 down to 10. That's a 10 fold decrease in an hour and 45 minutes. It's not possible. And then Jeff pointed to the data and said, yeah, look at what the endorphins do. The endorphins go up from five to 88. He said you'd have to run all day to get those kind of cause that's endorphins or what caused the runner high and that's what changes. We'd think that's causing people to get so stoned. So that is still the most significant and amazing data. Since then, I've probably treated 350, um, patients. The paper was published in 2005. We submitted it to five different journals before we got, uh, J BMT and Leon Chato to accept it. Um, 54 patients with a history of some sort of spine trauma. Average chronicity was 10 years.

Speaker 5:                           00:56:44               Incoming pain was a 7.3 on narcotics. Um, exiting pain was a 1.3 and 58% of them. So there's 54 patients. One of them had um, some spinal cord stenosis, so she didn't tolerate the treatment, but I'm 58%, 31 of the 53% of the 53 patients, the fiber miles was gone in four months. Each time you treated them, the pain went down faster and stayed, gone longer. Um, 13 of the 53 discontinued treatment for two reasons, not related to the treatment side effects. So there were no side effects aside from the fact that you got stone in your pain went away. But I saw it took me probably 10 years to figure out what was up with these 13 out of 53 patients, we had the same problem. And when we treat nerve pain, what's up with that? And then it occurred to me that when we treat somebody, if you've been in pain for like any place between three and 50 years, if your pain level has not been below a five or six for 15 years and you are pain free at the end of 60 minutes, who are you? Right? We have the ability with this technology in many conditions, not just fibromyalgia in mile festival pain, nerve pain to create an identity crisis that is literally unparalleled and medicine. So there's, there's no, I don't think there's any medication that I can think of except maybe an antibiotic when you're really sick that turns you from really sect to normal in 60 to 90 minutes.

Speaker 5:                           00:58:54               It takes repeated treatment. The 58% that recovered 50. What was it with, yeah, 58%. That recovered, um, came into the clinic twice a week for about six to eight weeks and then gradually decrease their visits. There happened to be just a little microcurrent device available that had two that happened to have a frequency choice that included 40 and 10. So a number of patients bought those from. Um, there was a company called Rehabil care, but those and used them at home. Um, one, one patient is sort of our, are a poster child, had fiber miles for 17 years. Um, she started out in on December 8th with a 18 out of 18 tender points, tender to less than one or two pounds per square inch pressure. By January 8th, one month later she had, um, 14 out of 18 tender points, Tinder to maybe two or three pounds per square inch pressure.

Speaker 5:                           01:00:13               By February she had four out of 18 tender points and she knew and she was sleeping well with no medication. She no longer met the diagnostic criteria for fibromyalgia. She didn't have it anymore. She was off all her meds. Um, and so I think she was with me for, for the four months, but she didn't have fibromyalgia. After the two months I got her into PT. We, she had recondition stabilize their spine. She got massages on a chiropractors. So I did adjusting, uh, with uh, an activator, it really light force sort of technique. And at the end of four months she was, she was done and it was permanent. Six years later I found her, she had moved to Colorado and it, she was fine. So that was the beginning. And since then we have expanded. So like, because I have this list, there are all kinds of tissues.

Speaker 5:                           01:01:21               The liver, small intestine, kidney, um, the urator, the bladder, that joint capsule, the cartilage, there's frequencies on this list for this condition. Well, it took me, I'm pretty skeptical, believer it or not, and it, it took me five years treating roughly 70 to 90 patient visits a week. Clinic was total chaos at that point. I never ran on time, but doing 70 to 90 patient visits a week for five years. So we figured it was around 30,000 to 40,000 patient treatments, individual treatments that I did myself in a five year period, took me five years to believe that the frequencies always do what they're described as doing. So if I make a choice that doesn't work, it's not that the frequencies aren't working, it's that I picked the wrong thing.

Speaker 5:                           01:02:34               So, um, yeah. So when somebody came in with elevated liver enzymes, you treat inflammation in the liver, in the enzymes go down, somebody comes in with an ovarian cyst. So in Oregon, chiropractors can do, deliver babies do Gyn exams. Um, so somebody comes in with a huge ovarian cyst and low back pain and abdominal pain and the ovarian cyst is the size of an orange or a grapefruit. You run the frequency to reduce inflammation in the ovary and you just like literally, you could palpate the cyst shrinking. Wow. So over time we've found out what we can treat, what we can't treat the frequencies to reduce inflammation and dissolve scar tissue or the ones that are the most reliable. It's like that's a slam dunk. If it's an inflammatory, we can treat it. Then there are frequencies on a whole additional sheet from another one of Harry's lists that we teach in the advanced.

Speaker 5:                           01:03:47               And it's all good. Ben Clinically derived everything I teach in the, what we call the course seminar. Of course seminar stat started at as two, two days, two short days, like from nine to five, nine to six. It is now four days, four full days. We start at nine, we go to six. We're never finished till six 30. Um, and Sunday afternoon is all the visceral applications. Um, but we do physical medicine, muscles, nerve new injuries. So, um, 1990 probably was 2000. Patient came in that she called me at eight 30 in the morning and she said, I just got in an accident. Um, I was going through an intersection. My car was hit side impact at 30 miles an hour just behind the driver's side door. My minivan fell over, like tipped on its side. She climbed out of the car, called me, called her husband, called the tow truck.

Speaker 5:                           01:05:15               They went to the emerge. I said, just get the office as soon as you can. Um, so she went to the emergency room, found out nothing was fractured. She was okay. But when she got to my office at 1130, so three hours after the accident, her range of motion was about 20% of normal. She had pain level, was a six or seven. She had pain in her neck, her shoulders, the lower part of her face. She was a podiatrist, a as a profession, but she was also a dancer with the Portland ballet companies. So she would had what, maybe 12% body fat, really slender, very flexible, strong but flexible. And so you could actually see the swelling in the muscles in her neck. She couldn't ever had it. I mean it was awful. So I did the exam, um, and I started treating her at 1230 and I treated her the frequencies to stop the bleeding.

Speaker 5:                           01:06:18               Um, there are frequencies for torn and broken and removing the fact of trauma from connective tissue ligaments, all, all the disks, all the tissues that get injured in an auto accident. So I treated her from 1231 32 o'clock, so an hour and a half. And then George came in and treated her from two to three and he, he did basically the same thing but on the tissues I hadn't gotten to yet. Um, and we treated the nervous system and um, so at three o'clock I went in and I, I looked at her and I said, okay, here's the thing, it's going to be worse tomorrow than it is today. It's going to be worse the day after that than it is tomorrow and it's going to take you three to four months to recover. This is a big deal. This is a, this is a really massive accident. And she said, okay, so this was a Thursday, and I said, come in tomorrow morning. So she came in the next day, nine o'clock in the morning, completely pain free with full range of motion.

Speaker 5:                           01:07:31               That is exactly what I said. It's like, what? What about the, it was like, yeah, it was like watching the sun come up in the west. It's like, Huh? I said, well maybe the pain will come back Monday. I don't know. It's on vacation. Yeah, right. It's like whatever. It's hiding out. So Monday she comes in painfree full range of motion and that kind of went on a shelf with things I didn't understand, but had to try it again. So over time for between 2000 and 2004 we found out that they had to be treated within four hours to six hours at the time of the injury and after six to eight hours, if it was as long as 12 hours, it's speeded things up, but it wasn't miraculous.

Speaker 5:                           01:08:26               So, and we don't get that many patients that are that acute. So in 2003, I taught us sports seminar. And in June I was teaching the course seminar with metagenics as a sponsor and I was up in San Francisco and somebody heard about me from one of my students. And so I ended up treating the entire, uh, uh, fencing line from the San Francisco 40 niners and Terrell Owens and Tony Parrish were in that group of six or eight guys that I treated that day. So in December of 2004, when Terrell Owens injured his ankle and fractured his Tibia, fibula, his trainer called me in December 19th in the morning, his personal trainer and said, Terrell got hurt yesterday. Um, it's bad. We've been treating them with microcurrent, with the sports care unit and um, he wants to play in the Superbowl in six weeks. And my cat rock, who's his chiropractor, who's my student hat rec sees not going to do it.

Speaker 5:                           01:09:49               It's too scary. And he said, if any is going to, but he's going to do it, you're going to do it. And I said, I kind of did the math in my head and took a deep breath and said, yeah, let's say we can, it's worth a try. So I said, but I have to be there when he gets out of surgery tomorrow morning, because I knew about the four hour window. They had gotten microphone on him right after the fracture. And I said, I've got to treat him because they were going in surgically to pin because not only did he fractured the fibula, he tore the ligaments of volts, the ligaments on the outside part of the angle ankle. And he tore the connective tissue, um, membrane that holds the to be in the fibula together. There was nothing holding his lower leg together.

Speaker 5:                           01:10:38               So they went in and they, they pinned the Tibia and the fibula together and they just kind of pace down the deltoid ligament on the outside, the angle in ankle and put them in a, stitch it up, put him in a boot. And I was there when he got out of the, or I had my big old blue box, weighed 14 pounds, eight d cell batteries. And I started treating him in the car on the way home because what we were about to attempt was completely impossible, just can't be done. So he came in the house on crutches and I set up the microcurrent machine on the, on the coffee table in the living room. He went to the bathroom, crutches way back over to the couch, had a glass of water and laid down on the couch. And I treated him for 24 hours straight.

Speaker 5:                           01:11:31               I was 10 o'clock in the morning. We got to the house. Um, we just sat on the couch, they brought us food and when it was bedtime, I slept sitting up. He slept on the couch. I treated him, I turn the current down cause I was going to treat him overnight and I just ran the frequencies to stop the bleeding, quiet down the inflammation in the nerve, repair the bone, uh, treat the tissue for being torn and broken. So the next morning team trainer for the Philadelphia Eagles comes in the house and he said, okay, let's see it. And so Terrell's in, uh, in, uh, one of those Velcro, what you put on your leg when it breaks boots. So we undo the velcro and cut the gauze wrap. And what we should have seen was an ankle that was about the size of a football. It should have been incredibly swollen, black, purple, even on an African American athlete, it should have been black.

Speaker 5:                           01:12:39               And there was zero swelling and zero bruising. And all three of us looked at it and just went, wow. And Burkholder said, how do I take advantage of what you can do? And I said, well, you're going to have to believe what you see instead of what you expect to see. Because I'd never done anything like this before. This is, this is nuts. It's like, okay. So we treated him for six hours a day, five or six days a week for five weeks. And at the end of four weeks, the fracture, which was an open spiral fracture of the fibula, was completely healed. Bone to bone remodel done.

Speaker 5:                           01:13:28               The surgeon was running, running around telling anybody with a microphone that this was an 18 week injury. He'd never play. He might never play again and he wouldn't clear him to practice and Burkholder's that affects that. So he did fluoroscopy and x-rays and the ankle was completely stable on fluoroscopy and the fracture was healed. Now Burkholder had him. He had no pain, no swelling, no bruising. I treated him on the 19th 20th 21st Against 21st 22nd 23rd I flew home. Christmas Eve, he had Christmas Day off and on the 26th of December, Burkholder had him in a swimming pool running on a treadmill, put a Ziploc baggy on his leg up to his hip and had him running in three feet of water for an hour because he had to stay aerobically fit and we not only had to repair the ankle, he had to be fit to play.

Speaker 5:                           01:14:42               So make a long story short. At four weeks it was completely healed and the frequencies for taking apart scar tissue are so powerful that I knew I couldn't use them until the injury was six weeks old, five and a half. So I didn't do anything to take apart the scar tissue until we got to Jacksonville. For the Superbowl. And when he got to Jacksonville on Tuesday, he couldn't run. He ran 20 yards in his whole lower leg, cramped up, his foot cramped up. I got there Wednesday and his massage therapist, Brian Glotzbach and I spent five hours taking apart his lower leg down to the bond. Bryan still describes it as bloodless surgery. It was nuts. All of the cause. In order to run those tissues have to glide. And if it's stuck to the bone and the nerve and the muscle, cerebellum is not going to let it run. So we took it apart on Wednesday, finished it on Thursday. My cat rat came and adjusted his ankle and he played Sunday like he'd never been hurt. So that's kind of the long answer to the question you asked it out. Now

Speaker 2:                           01:15:58               I go, Gosh, you are now my number one favorite guests when it comes to storytelling. Um, all I want to do is like come hang out with you. I love it. I have so many questions. I'm on the edge of my seat the entire time. I've so much respecting that you do. Oh, thank you. Well, I know the listeners are just like me on the edge of their seat. I've actually, I have a list of notes of like questions that came up, you know, and then on the side of the paper, I have a list of people I'm going to immediately call after we're done this interview to tell them that they have to have to have to have this or they have to have in their life. Um, when you met, let's go way back to the beginning. You, you, you mentioned briefly the Flexner report and I think what's really important for people to understand is that was the sort of modernization of our current medical system. And it was funded by Carnegie.

Speaker 5:                           01:16:57               Yes. And Merck,

Speaker 2:                           01:16:58               they funded it in order to make a list of doctors that would use their pharmaceuticals. So the entire American medical establishment was basically,

Speaker 4:                           01:17:10               uh, manipulated, uh, informed by the interest to profit pharmaceuticals. Yup. Right. And so of course they want to kick out anything that competes with pharmaceutical, you know, interests and this type of, so I I know about the rife machine and I read the, you know, the book, the story on the rife machine and how they, um, the rapist, she was so effective at reducing, you know, killing tumors and things like that and killing, you know, infections that it was outlawed because that is going way against the interests of the pharmaceutical companies. And this sounds very similar to the rife machine. Can you explain the difference between what you do and what the rife machine does?

Speaker 5:                           01:18:02               Sure. The rife used a light microscope scope, so he developed a microscope in whenever that was, 1920 something that was so powerful. He could see life forms, um, and infectious agents that we s we still haven't replicated his device. And he found, and it was a light microscope, he found that when he tuned the light to a certain frequency, because light has frequencies that are between eight and 16,000 Hertz, when he tuned the light in the microscope, the animal, the, the bacteria or the life form would begin to vibrate and then basically just explode. And so he used light frequencies and he wanted to, he found that there was, these bacteria are pleomorphic forms that were associated with cancer and he wanted to accumulate a thousand cases and publish a thousand cases of terminal cancer that he had cured with his, um, as a plasma tube, light frequencies in a plasma tube.

Speaker 5:                           01:19:23               And he says, oh, he never used electrical pulses as light frequencies and, but they shut him down. He had one colleague, one friend, and I think southern California that had one of his microscopes and a list of the frequencies. And that was it. They were just the two of them. So when the FDA came in and raided rice lab, they destroyed like literally physically destroyed his microscope and the light confiscated all of his records and the frequency list. And then his other friend just went deep underground. And so they didn't get him. But the lessons of rife are actually the other reason why I started teaching it, because they could take out rife by taking out one guy [inaudible]. So by the time I got to 200 practitioners, I figured we were too big to stop. And then Leon, the publications helped. Rife, didn't publish anything.

Speaker 5:                           01:20:37               So I started publishing in 1998 little case reports, but they're collected case reports and is better than nothing. Right. And then Leon Chato talked me into on talk to Elsevier and to publishing the Fsm Textbook. And that was published I think in 2007 or so, maybe eight. And then, um, so I got it into print, got it out and taught it at first to find out if it was reproducible and to avoid rights, fate. And then ultimately I kept teaching him because it would be immoral not to. So the basic principles of biologic residents are the same as the way the rife frequencies work. Um, but his free, our frequencies are all below a thousand hertz. They're all used directly on the body. And because I don't want to end up living in Mexico or the Caribbean, we do not treat cancer. I just, I can, we can get rid of cancer pain.

Speaker 5:                           01:21:51               I can get rid of the nausea from chemotherapy. I can prevent the scarring that happens with radiation burns. Um, I can treat us off at deals scarring. There's one sequence of frequencies of probably about six or eight frequency pairs that's good for metastatic bone pain. So the pain bone pain from bone metastasis is untreatable with opiates. And there's this one protocol that so we can treat for pain relief and we can treat to keep the quality of life better with cancer. So that's the biggest difference between rife and FSM. It's the same basic mechanism, which is, um, biological resonance. So your, your body, any life form is um, a, um, semiconductor. So the water now, now I'm off on another tack. Oh, but still a good story. The water in your cells. So if you took biology and I, most of us did, they, they show the picture of the cell and they have the organelles like the Mitochondria and the nucleus and the ribosomes and all the organelles in the cell are kind of, we had the idea they were floating around in this liquid that the cell is filled with water basically.

Speaker 5:                           01:23:33               And then the biophysicist in the fifties sixties seventies and eighties found out that that water is organized, that it lines this gel matrix that's inside the cell. These watermelon qls sort of kind of stick electromagnetically to this gel that lines the inside of a cell and the water molecules flicker as watermark is due. And when they flicker, they form what it structures that are virtually exactly like semiconductor that's in your computer. It forms a, a matrix that has a hole that allows the controlled flow of one electron at a time through these holes. So the inside of your cells is like a gummy bear. It's a gel, it's not water and it's a gel that's a semiconductor. So the current has the ability to affect the inside of the cell and the structures on the outside of the cell, the receptors on the cell membrane. So there's two pieces to biological resonance.

Speaker 5:                           01:25:00               One is that you are body. We think of our bodies as biochemical, right? Because we use nutritional supplements, we take prescription medication, we think of ourselves as biochemical. We, we know that we have, you know, magnesium needs and all these chemicals in us that make us us. Well, the challenge with that is that yes, we are Bob biochemical, but and as a biochemical system, you obey the rules of Newtonian physics, right? If we drop you off a building and you're going to accelerate at 32 feet per second, per second, so large structures follow the rules of Newtonian physics. The problem with that is that Newtonian physics falls apart when you get down to the atomic level. So your body is made of biochemicals. Great. What? Biochemicals made of molecules. Oh yeah. What are molecules made of? Hm. Adams. Uh Huh. What are atoms made of?

Speaker 5:                           01:26:21               Ah, subatomic particles and all of these particles are held together by electromagnetic bonds. There are not special hydrogen atoms in your arm tissue make, you know, ch three it's not a special hydrogen atom. It's the same kind of hydrogen atom that runs around in the linear accelerator in Chicago or certain seem same critter. Okay, so your body is held together. All these atoms, subatomic particles that make up your body are held together by electromagnetic bonds. Got It. That is a fact. There's no wiggle room. That's true. Okay. Talk to me about bonds. Every bond, every mechanical bond, every chemical bond, every structural bond, every bond has a frequency at which it resonates. So resonance is the definition of resonance is the tendency of a system or a bond to oscillate at very large amplitudes in response to some frequencies and not others. At the resonant frequency, very small forces can produce very large amplitude vibrations.

Speaker 5:                           01:27:56               So they found out in the 18 hundreds that company of soldiers or division of soldiers walking across a wooden bridge in step, if they hit the right resonant frequency for that bridge, the bridge would collapse. It happened. So when soldiers march across the bridge, they break step. When Julie Andrews in Victor Victoria, when she sings that that high sustained note in my chemistry class, the teacher explain why she is able to break a lead crystal glass by singing that one particular precise sustained note. There is a precise frequency that holds led Adams. It only works with lead crystal, that's 70% lead crystal. There is a frequency that literally holds led atoms together in this crystal Matrix.

Speaker 5:                           01:29:04               When she sings the note, if she hits it just right and if it is sustained and perfect, the lead Adam bonds begin to vibrate with the singers note and eventually within a minute or so they vibrate so much that they simply can't hold together and the lead crystal glass comes apart. So that's resonance. So when we talk about the, the model that we have for how FSM works now is that there are receptors on the outsides of the cells, like just the cell membrane. The outside of the cell membrane is mostly protein, little peptide receptors, and those receptors are connected to the inside of the cell by kinases that attached to enzymes that attached to um, kindness. Is that attached to the genes and change what the genes do. So when you take Ibuprofen and take an Advil, that chemical Ibuprofen lands on this receptor on the outside of a cell and bonds with it chemically, like a key in a lock.

Speaker 5:                           01:30:39               So drugs and nutrients, even like your nutritional intake affects the cells. It all works the same way, affects the cells by landing on that receptor like a catalog and it changes the membrane receptors and that changes the way the cell works inside. Well, the frequencies as near as we can tell, affect the same receptors with the signal, like your key fob, you know, your key remote that opens your car door that operates on a very specific frequency that is specific to that key and that car. So you notice when you go into a parking lot, you press your key fob and it opens only your car, not the same year, the same model, a different color that's parked next to you. It's only your car. And that is because the frequency is precise. So the frequencies act as if they are changing cell membrane receptor function and interest. Cellular function like your key fob opens a door lock because we spent, that was probably 1215 years, 15 years trying to understand the cytokine data, remember all the chemicals, the cytokines that changed by factors of 10 and 20 times. And Michael Rough said that's impossible. They're hard to change. And when they change slowly and they all changed by factors of 20 times. The other piece of that is they all stopped in the normal range.

Speaker 5:                           01:32:35               So the f the only explanation that makes sense is that the frequency changed the production of cytokines in the spinal cord and substance p in the spinal cord by changing membrane receptor function and changing what the cell did for living because the cytokines all dropped and they all stopped in the normal range. And the cytokines are produced by this intracellular genetic mechanism. The cytokines don't come from space. They come from inside cells. They're manufactured by the cells. The only way to drop them that fast is by stopping the cell from producing it. It's the only thing that makes sense. That's, and with the new injuries like Terrell and like my auto accident Ballerina, when we found out, it's like we didn't understand that mechanism. How do you do that in a new injury? How does, how did that happen? That is not sensible. That does not happen and the, as it turns out, the only thing that is unique in brand new injuries is the only thing that changes in four to six hours are the genes inside the cell.

Speaker 5:                           01:34:13               There are genes that are turned on immediately by bleeding, by information, by tissue fragments, by torn tissue. There are genes that are turned on instantly in the first two hours and those genes are offered our six we think, I mean this is what started us down the cell signaling pathway. We think that what is happening inside the cells that have been injured is that because the frequencies are stopping the bleeding and turning off the inflammation and beginning to repair the tissue and giving the current, giving the cells five times the amount of ATP that had had 20 minutes ago. All of those things work together and turn these genes off. So at the end of the treatment, you're about two weeks into the healing process simply by changing the genes that operate in a new injury. And Terrell Owens is living proof that the repair tissue we create is as strong or stronger than what would have happened normally.

Speaker 5:                           01:35:29               So the cell Epi to go ahead changes. Pardon? It's affecting you at genetically? Yes, that is, that's the only mechanism that accounts for all the data. We have animal data, we have human data. We have now we're working on scar tissue in a rat model in the abdomen, so treating abdominal adhesions and pelvic pain associated with endometriosis and Crohn's and all of that. We done surgery on rats and watched certain frequencies dissolve scar tissue in certain places in the rats abdomen. And not in other places. And it's very frequency specific. So it's, it is, it's changing the epigenetics. It's the only thing that makes sense. It's the only thing that accounts for all of the data. We have animal research on inflammation. Um, shingles, there's one frequency that the only thing it's good for his shingles, oral and genital herpes and shingles. That doesn't make sense. The patient comes in with pain that you know, is shingles and um, because it follows a nerve root started from no particular trauma, it's a seven out of 10. You run this one frequency combination and the patients out of pain in 20 minutes, you have to run it for one to two hours and then it's done. You might have to run it two or three days in a row, but the pain never comes back as bad as it was to begin with. And at the end of about six hours of treatment, it's done.

Speaker 5:                           01:37:20               The only thing that makes sense, the shingles virus is um, pretty simple as viruses go. It's like a about 743 Dalton's a peptide that's all held together in about six or eight pretty crucial bonds. Right in the middle of, it's a little hat, its little head and all we can think of is that that frequency literally dismantles the virus is the only thing that makes any sense of the data. And we're thousands of patients into this. This one's a slam dunk. How's that? You know, it's the only mechanism that accounts for what we're able to do.

Speaker 4:                           01:38:03               That makes complete sense in that, that was my understanding of, of one of the things that they could do with the rife machine was basically create the free of frequency that would split apart a bacteria or a virus. Much like the glass, the lead crystal glass would shatter. You're just doing the exact opposite frequency, cancelling it out. It just explodes. It can't hold itself together. Exactly. So it can be destructive to cells you don't want into your body, but turn around and support and heal cells. You do want to support this. That's amazing. Um, why do you think it creates more ETPs it? Because it's somehow stimulating or, or is it some, a healing the mitochondria or is there a frequency for Mitochondria? Like have you figured out why the ATP production goes up so, so much?

Speaker 5:                           01:38:51               Um, no, because they cause a knock Chang and then Seeger's and South Africa, you did two papers, 2001 in 2002, they weren't using any frequency. It's just that's what is accomplished with just the current. Just microcurrent by itself does an incredible job of it. Does that thing and seekers and knock Chang both found that it increased ATP by five times. So it's just the flow of electrons that your body doesn't have to work for your mitochondria make ATP by this. It's a peptide, uh, kind of an enzyme system where electrons flow down this, it's like a big Pachinko machine. You know, if you've ever seen one of those, those tricks that they show on, you know, on Youtube where you have a ball that drops in, that lands on a little diving board and that goes down here and that makes that happen. Okay. That's how you make ATP.

Speaker 5:                           01:39:54               There's a structure inside the mitochondria that just Trent moves electrons down a big Pachinko machine and you end up with ATP at the end of it. And so Jay, just the current unmodulated, non frequency specific current will increase ATP production by 500% and there are practitioners that want to develop new frequencies for let's say things like the Mitochondria. Well, one of the things that I've been pretty hardheaded about because I want this to persist. I do not want, it's too important. I do not want frequency specific microcurrent relegated to the Woo Weirdo group. It's like, no, sorry. This is real stuff. This is physics. It's not magic. It's physics. So when we have a frequency for let's say a tissue, there is a f a frequency for the tendon and there is a frequency for torn and broken in the attendance. And if you combine those two, you can repair tendinopathy and 60 minutes. Okay?

Speaker 5:                           01:41:16               It's, it's easy. You can, you can feel the tendon, um, and, and you can document that that frequency really is working on the tendon. When you treat the nerve, you can do a sensory examined. Now this nerve is hypersensitive and painful and in 30 or 60 minutes, this nervous, normal sensation, not painful. You can, you can measure it, you can see it. The people that wanted to, and I've had people that muscle tests for frequencies and it's like, okay, if you are, if that frequency works, how will you know? So they want to develop a frequency for the Mitochondria. Great. How would you know that it worked well? I'd have more energy. It's like not necessarily, you can't tell. The current by itself will increase ATP production, but you can't document it. There are so many causes for fatigue. So the assumption that fatigue is a mitochondrial dysfunction is completely invalid.

Speaker 5:                           01:42:30               It just doesn't hold up at all. Cardiovascular disease, heart disease causes fatigue, sleep apnea causes fatigue, infection from root canals or Lyme disease or viral infections or an infected gallbladder or pathogen in your gut causes inflammation and that causes fatigue. There's six or eight really well documented, clear cut causes of fatigue have nothing to do with the Mitochondria. Every now and then, like there's like 0.1 or maybe one or 2% that actually have a documented mitochondria genetic mitochondria defect and they don't live right. So why would I want to treat the Mitochondria? But you know, maybe 50 years from now when we're done documenting everything else that we knew how to treat. But right now I want something, I can see something, I can measure something that will change patient's symptoms and pain. So fully 50%. So this course is now four days. Our advanced is two full days. Every other year we have a symposium. So we have those coming up in Phoenix in uh, March. And so the courses four full days,

Speaker 4:                           01:43:55               can lay people attend the course just, just to be able to help themselves and their family? Or does someone have to be a practitioner to attend your courses?

Speaker 5:                           01:44:03               I, I've had lay people attend, um, even something like massage therapists. The, the level of information is aimed at medical providers. So mds, osteopaths, chiropractors, nature paths, um, all have, uh, an intense four year training. That includes a lot of background. So I know where I was going with that. Fully. 50% of the information in the course in this four days, his diagnosis, how do you, right. So I have low back pain. Okay. There's, you can have low back pain from fossette joint problem, inflammation in the fossette joints, inflammation and injury in the disk, trigger points in the muscles. Um, uterine fibroid, ovarian cyst, lymphoma, prostate cancer. What's causing your low back pain, inflammation, your colon that can cause low back pain. Where's it coming from? How do you tell what to treat? So over the last 22 years, it has become obvious that we have to treat what is causing the pain.

Speaker 5:                           01:45:23               So yes, you can feel the muscles in your neck or tight and the muscles are sore. So I could treat the muscles and it took 12 visits in eight weeks. But if I now treat the ligament injury between the occiput c one and c two and I treat the adhesions in the Dura between c one and c two and inflammation in the facet joints, injured ligaments in the spine, inflammation and the disk. I haven't done anything for the muscle. I haven't used a single frequency for the Fascia and the muscle and all of the muscle tightness, muscle pain and trigger points disappear because the frequencies are changing. What's driving the muscle to be tight and to have trigger points in it. So we've taken 12 visits and turned it into three by treating the cause. It's absolutely fascinating.

Speaker 4:                           01:46:30               It is. It is fascinating. I really, really, really hope that many of the practitioners are listening become your students. Cause I want to see this become a household becomes something that people go, oh I was in a car accident, I gotta I gotta go get my, my frequency specific microcurrent session. You know, I want it to be known because this is like, it is just crazy that this has been around for 100 years or more and, and still in the dark, you know, it's just, it's just crazy. Well I know the listeners listening to this show because they want answers and they, they are looking beyond the standard drugs and surgery or wait till you get there

Speaker 3:                           01:47:13               sick response from their doctor. They want to find what works.

Speaker 3:                           01:47:20               This wraps up part one of this amazing interview. Be sure to tune in to the next episode for the continuation and completion of our interview with the doctor Carolyn McMaken. I know that you enjoyed today's interview. Please definitely come to the website lurcher health.com to check out all the show notes of today's interview with all the links, everything that doctor Carolyn does as well as the shirts and links to all the wonderful episodes and definitely check out that new feature on [inaudible] dot com at the very top in the menu bar where you can see Ashley's recommended holistic health gadgets and goodies to help you have an even healthier home and kitchen. Excellent. Glad you enjoyed today's show. Have a fantastic rest of your day.

Speaker 1:                           01:48:26               Are you going to optimize your health? Are you looking to get the best supplements at the lowest price for high quality supplements and to talk to someone about what supplements are best for you. Go to take your supplements.com and one of our fantastic true health coaches will help you pick out the right supplements for you that are the highest quality and the best price. That's take your supplements.com take your supplements.com that's take your supplements.com be sure to ask about free shipping and our awesome referral program.

Speaker 1:                           00:00:03               Welcome to the learn true health podcast. I'm your host, Ashley Jean. This is episode 333 hello trails seeker and welcome to another exciting episode of the alert true helped podcast. Today's interview is part two part one was episode three 32 with Doctor Carolyn McMakin. Today is the continuation completion of our two part interview with her. So if you haven't listened to episode 332 with doctor Carolyn would make and I highly recommend going back and listening to that episode and then coming here to listen to episode 333 we dive yeah,

Speaker 2:                           00:00:44               into how she uses her technology and how all of our practitioners use this technology to heal different diseases. Gynecologists uses it to support women in healing, c-sections, sports medicine practitioners use it in football and hockey to support a healing bones faster and ligaments and tendons faster, kidney stones, Parkinson's. The list goes on and on. So we talk about all kinds of interesting topics, auto immune disease and different ways that she can help you to support you on your healing journey. And I'm very excited to have brought you all this information. Something else I'm really excited to bring you is free Dr Course Dotcom. I get together with some of my favorite nature pathic physicians local to me and we filmed videos, the foundations of health, those tips and tricks that are going to support you in building a strong and healthy body holistically. So if you're interested in learning some great information, which I know you are from holistic experts, go to free doctor course.com I created that website to support you in your holistic health journey. So good at

Speaker 1:                           00:02:02               free doctor course Dotcom and check that out and let me know what you think. I'd love to hear from you. You can join our Facebook group, learn true help Facebook group and let me know how you enjoyed learning from our nature pathic physicians, free doctor [inaudible] Dot com enjoy today's interview. Now what about the immune system or like autoimmune conditions you can you, are there frequencies to support a healthy and robust immune system or, or

Speaker 3:                           00:02:33               to support, you know, healing an autoimmune condition and bring the body back into balance? Absolutely. I mean that's, this is these kinds of of case reports. The pain patients or where we started, I mean we've been doing this 22 years. When I say we, it's like me and the staff and the practitioners in the faculty and everybody that has helped develop this as I teach the classes and I started it, but I certainly don't do this by myself. So the whole FSM community, um, so the, the, we started out treating pain and then in 2000 we found out we could treat the spinal cord and then we started treating stroke patients, thalamic pain patients in 2002 and then found out we could treat the nervous system and then found out there's a frequency for the Vegas nerve and the muddler and the immune system and the gut.

Speaker 3:                           00:03:40               So when you look at autoimmune disease and when you get enough mileage, seeing enough really ill, chronically ill patients, whether it's autoimmune or just chronic illness, there are certain patterns that become apparent. So autoimmune disease, we have this, this category, autoimmune disease, and that includes rheumatoid arthritis, Scleroderma, psoriasis, Crohn's disease, you know, just examples. And all of those are conditions where your immune system has decided that, let's just say Scleroderma. Your immune system has decided that your connective tissue and your capillaries belonged to somebody else. So they get incredibly inflamed. And then because of the inflammation, they scar, that's just Scleroderma. Rheumatoid arthritis, your immune system decides that your synovial membranes inside your joints are belong to somebody else. When I started seeing larger numbers of these, we have frequencies for the immune system and it works okay. We have frequencies to reduce inflammation and dissolve scar tissue.

Speaker 3:                           00:05:06               So we can approach autoimmune patients in a pretty, um, nuts and bolts kind of fashion. But there's always been something missing until about a year or two ago. And that's when we found out it almost everybody knows anybody that sees autoimmune patients if you ask in history. So I just did a research project in England with Scleroderma patients and we had six patients in three days that we treated. And I asked all six of them what was going on, one, two, three months prior to the onset of the inflammatory phase of Scleroderma. So they were all chronic and scarred with their hands, you know, really restricted in motion. What happened three months before every single one of them. Every rheumatoid arthritis patient I've ever had, every single one of them say that there was some incredibly stressful period of their lives that immediately proceeded the onset of their autoimmune condition or they had an infection.

Speaker 3:                           00:06:29               So Crohn's patients will oftentimes get food poisoning, ulcerative colitis patients, food poisoning or bacterial infection or a pathogen or a parasite activates the immune system. And then the immune system just never turns off. And in the process of that attacks gets confused. And my favorite premed class was immunology. So the immune system develops these antibodies that cross link between whatever started the trouble and your synovial joints or your colon or your capillaries. So you have this inflammatory condition. And about two years ago, one of my practitioners did a presentation on the Vegas nerve and she's a medical doctor in Mount Gambia, South Australia. And we do a Skype facetime sort of update with the Estonian practitioners every September. And she presented this thing on the Vegas and she pointed out that the, the Vegas is what, um, is, has as its job to slow down your heart rate and to improve your digestion, help you secrete digestive enzymes and stomach acid so that Vegas improves your digestion, slows your heart rate, and the Vegas suppresses your immune system.

Speaker 3:                           00:08:17               I didn't know that part. So she does this presentation and psych all, I knew it quiet at the heart rate because I, in 2002, I treated a patient in a cardiologist's office that had been Tricolor Tac cardia. And by using the frequency to increase secretions in the Vegas, I took his heart rate from 136 to 67 and about 45 seconds. Scared the hell out of them. Yeah. It's like holy. So I didn't do that again and I kind of warned everybody off of treating the Vegas. Well then I found out what it's good for. So I am the number one FSM lab rat. I sat on the couch in the living room and I, my, my resting pulse is 62 and I treated myself to increased secretions in my Vegas and my resting pulse stayed 62 so unless your elevated heart rate is caused by the Vegas, you can treat the Vegas safely.

Speaker 3:                           00:09:17               It's like, okay. So I found that out. Now that third function of the Vegas is to suppress the immune system. All right? So you have those three things. It does a quest. So heart rate improves digestion and quiets the immune system. Then because we do so much with neurology in FSM, I do this presentation on the nervous system at every advanced course. So about two years ago, I'm preparing for this lecture and I read something that just blew my mind. When you have a stressful event, like you're running away from a tiger in the woods, you don't want your heart rate slow. You don't want your digestion, you've got 30 minutes to live. Digesting food is not a priority and you certainly don't want, your immune system is suppressed because the tiger spit has lots of terms in it. So the Vegas needs to go away while you're under this threat. So the nervous system arranges that the stress centers in the Mandala and the midbrain. So turn off or turn down the Vegas. Well, in a normal person, as soon as the infection is healed and the traumas, he'll do the tigers down the street. The midbrain quiets down the means. The biggest comes back on digestion, goes back to normal. The immune system gets quieted and your heart rate goes back to normal.

Speaker 3:                           00:10:55               It is not a coincidence that 80% it's a huge number. I'm think it's like 78 80% of fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, and chronically ill patients have a history of early childhood trauma, right? Right. Either physical or sexual abuse, surgery, trauma accidents, all before the age of seven. It's a huge number. When you look at what happens to the midbrain when you're five years old and you get beat up by, right, you're living in an unsafe environment, in a violent environment. That midbrain sets the firing threshold much lower. It takes almost nothing to set off the stress centers in the middle of your brain. So you're 20 you're 14 or 16 or 22 and you have this incredibly stressful event or infection or injury. Your midbrain gets jacked up, the Vegas gets turned back off in your midbrain decided that this is serious. I'm not going back off again in the Vegas can just lump it and the Vegas stays off his storage.

Speaker 3:                           00:12:15               Only if you take patient histories within three to nine months following a major life stressor such as infection, death in the family, divorce, whatever, within three to nine months, if you're going to develop an autoimmune disease, you do it then because the biggest doesn't come back on. So when we treat auto immune disease, I'm treating the immune system, but that doesn't work. It's temporary. It doesn't fix the problem. So it sort of ties it all in with a bow. So the Vegas goes off that reduces stomach acid and enzymes and reduces gut motility. Well, everybody has CBO now, right? Right, right. And it's like, no, just no. If you have appropriate ph in your gut and it's acid, the bacteria from your large bowel won't live in the small intestine. You can do anything you want to diet and antibiotics and whatever and the CBOs not going to go away unless you get the stomach acid and the Ph in the small bell normal.

Speaker 3:                           00:13:33               How are you going to do that? Treat the Vegas. How are you gonna get the Vegas to go back on? We treat the Mudela and the midbrain. It is breathtaking. Once you see the connections and these are not connections you would see unless you had a way to treat them. Once you have something, I can take somebody in atrial fib. My, my husband developed atrial fib after his hip surgery in July. His heart rate goes to 132 and I can take it back down to 65 and about 20 seconds by running the frequency to increased secretions in the Vegas. So once you have a tool that lets you do that, once I started seeing how it all works together, Crohn's, CBO, um, asthma, it's always stress. There's, it's always you have to treat the local tissues. So I have to treat the infection that started the asthma or treated the immune hypersensitivity that started the asthma. But then the other thing you have to do is treat them a dollar to quiet it down, treat the midbrain to quiet it down. But the Vegas come back on and quiet down the immune system.

Speaker 3:                           00:14:54               It's, it just all ties together. Once you see it as a whole and you have a tool that'll let you do all of that and you see it all together so you don't just use Bronco dilators. I used to sell Bronco dilators. I, I called on respiratory physicians for 16 years, for 14 years. So you don't just use Bronco dilators or immune suppressants, fix it, right? Fix The gut, right, fix the gut. So 85% of the immune system is clustered around the gut. Once your gut starts leaking, the immune system's going to stay jacked up cause it's all excited about the, the peptides and stuff that's coming around across your gut wall. So you start out with asthma and you end up with food sensitivities than include gluten, milk and corn or eggs. Those go together because it's the same problem. Isn't that cool? It is so cool.

Speaker 3:                           00:15:53               It's so cool. So, so someone comes to you with one of these conditions, Scleroderma, rheumatoid arthritis, you know, any of the host of autoimmune conditions. And they'd go through these treatments, getting to the root cause. Are they completely in remission? Do they get 100% back to health? Uh, can't put tissue back that's not there. Right? So if you are a patient with swan neck deformity is removed, torn arthritis, no, I can't put tissue back. This not there. I can get you out of pain. And the challenge with auto immune patients is it, it really is not a one visit fix. So you have to kind of do it all. So autoimmune patient comes in, let's say with rheumatoid arthritis, okay, here's the deal. You don't get to eat wheat, corn, eggs, soy milk or citrus for three months. And the patient gets kind of glassy eyed and that, and this is assuming they're not on biological.

Speaker 3:                           00:17:03               So if they, back in the day when they just put them on, um, methotrexate or steroids first, that was actually easier. They're on biologicals. It's a game changer. But let's just say they haven't gone that route yet. So you take them off all the foods they're allergic to, you have to treat the gut. Why? Because 85% of the immune system is clustered around the gut. So if the immune system has decided that your synovial joints belongs to somebody else, the immune system's going to be jacked up about everything else too. So you take them off of the foods they allergic to and then you treat the gut, treat the immune system quiet down the modela, quiet down the Midbrain, you treat the Vegas and then you treat the joints and then you see how it goes. And this is, it's not, it's not a sprint, it's a marathon.

Speaker 3:                           00:18:00               It's, it's not like, well, it's been two weeks and that's a really good looking corn Tortilla, or oh, it's just sourdough. I'll just have one piece. No, right. So it's a, it's a, it's a time period. But there are practitioners in the US and Germany and the UK that combine FSM there, they're medical doctors or nature paths. They combine FSM with functional medicine, with an integrated metabolic, um, comprehensive way of looking at how everything works and it's connected and um, and you combine it all. So I'd say the most difficult ones are the patients where the immune system is aggravated because you have a root canal or you have mold in your house and you have a mold infection in your gallbladder, your sinuses, your bronchioles, whatever. Those are the most difficult because the, the dental work to get rid of it in a cult, dental infection is ex, it's expensive.

Speaker 3:                           00:19:16               It's difficult to find a dentist that's going to do it. That's not easy. Like I, I had had tomatoes and was on thyroid and Adrenal, a placement for five or six years. And then my dentist have an integrative dentist in California, she found did imaging called a three d cone beam that found about half of my job. Basically the back half on both sides, upper and lower was just gone, just necrotic eight root canals. So we started with the surgeries, took out the infected teeth, took out the infected bone. Um, I didn't have any molars for about two and a half years, but when he took out the last centimeter of infected bone and the last infected tooth, two weeks later, my antithyroid antibodies were zero and I no longer needed thyroid. And two weeks after that, so four weeks after that last surgery, I no longer needed adrenal replacement.

Speaker 3:                           00:20:24               And I'd been on hydrocortisone for five years. I didn't make any, like I didn't have any, it was pretty grizzly. So that's part of the way I found out about how this all goes together. So that demo, infection and mold infection, cause I'd had both, um, they jack up the immune system and they're the most difficult because the remediation is so expensive. You have to fix the house. There's prescription drugs, there's, I mean it's a, it's a thing. So those are more complicated. But the average garden variety, my mom went crazy and got really abusive for two years when I was 12 or 13 and undeveloped rheumatoid arthritis when I was 14. And now I get a little bloated and I have body pain, one ate gluten, those are easy, relatively speaking.

Speaker 2:                           00:21:14               It was really fascinating hearing about the jaw infection because I think that's, or a mold, um, you know, sensitivity. That's a unfortunately that sometime is that sometimes the last place people look and that's the root cause, you know, the have dental issues or to have a mold in the home can be, um, the root cause and, and uh, we're just looking absolutely everywhere. And then we finally years later find that it's mold or find that it's, I'm an infection in the jaw. Well now what about uh, creating a frequency to kill the infection instead of having to go through all the dental work? Is that possible?

Speaker 3:                           00:21:57               Well, they have, we have frequencies that are alleged to be for infectious. Um, what do they call it? Possum, possum capsulated or infectious agents. And there are frequencies for certain parasites and certain bacteria in the advanced, especially strep and staph. There's like six frequencies for each one of those. And I had a nature path in Australia who had this huge red spot on her thigh with streaks going up and down. And I said, that is Beta hemolytic strep. She said, yeah, I have an infected tooth. And I said, you need to go the emergency room like right now. This was the last day I was there. I was leaving the next day. So do you need to go? And she said, I would rather die of infection than take an antibiotic. And it's like, well, you might have that chance. And so there's a frequency, there's this six frequencies for strap.

Speaker 3:                           00:22:53               And I, my, one of the other practitioners treated her like we're all in one hotel room and they're doing facials on me and she's sitting on the other bed and it's like, okay, run these. So they ran those and at the end of an hour, hour and a half below spot was down to the size from about eight inches across. It was down the size of a quarter and the next morning the abscess in her tooth ruptured and she was fine. Okay. I have no idea what we did. The frequencies that we use are too low. Like rife frequencies are high enough and complex enough to blow up biological organisms. I do not believe that it is possible for frequency below a thousand hertz to blow up a bacteria. So that's just the patient reacts to it. The pain will go down, the bloating will go down the um, like when there's a parasite or an infection in the appendix, I can get the pain temporarily down, but it won't keep it down.

Speaker 3:                           00:24:01               So there's, there's just the pragmatic aspect about how whether or not the frequencies are adequate to do that. And the consensus among the FSM faculty and kind of our upper tier of, of experts is, yeah, I don't think so. And then there's the other piece of this in nature, pathic medicine and in medicine in general, there's that dictum that says first do no harm. It's like, I don't want to withhold appropriate medical intervention on the off chance that a frequency is going to kill this buck. People die of Sepsis, people die of infections. This is not something to get. No, it's just not safe. It's not smart. It's not responsible. And I, the first, first rule is do no harm. So if you come in and I used the frequent and you've got a lot of chest congestion and I used the frequencies for pneumonia in your chest gets warm and you're coughing gets better and you get sleepy and your tissue softens up, my next step is you go next door and you come back here when you're on antibiotics. And that's, that is my approach. Once you're, once you've done appropriate medical care, then then we can add FSM to whatever else you're doing. Does that make sense?

Speaker 4:                           00:25:41               Absolutely. I really appreciate that you

Speaker 3:                           00:25:45               are so logical

Speaker 4:                           00:25:48               based and ethical and grounded in, you know, what FSM is amazing for. And also then saying, you know, here's the limits. It's not the cure all, but we need, this is a tool that should be in every practitioners tool belt and we also need to know what its limits are. And so I appreciate that because you know, there's other people out there with technologies that say this is, this is the cure all for everything. And, and so, um, I appreciate that, that you're not one of those people.

Speaker 3:                           00:26:21               Yay. Me Too. It's like it's, it's how you survive longterm because my goal for FSM is to, these are these have, this is our, um, I guess it's the goals. It's to treat every patient in pain or now every patient who wants to be treated, it needs to be helped, um, to, to treat them by teaching practitioners, by teaching practitioners who can provide the treatment. And then the third step of our mission statement, our goal is to teach research, write and speak about FSM in such a way that it survives. And that means you have to be responsible and clear. And to the extent that it is possible, fact-based. One of the basic principles of science is observation and reproducibility. What did you see? You do this and that happens, Huh? And then you do this and that happens again under the same circumstances as I.

Speaker 3:                           00:27:35               And after a period of time, you now know that if you do this, that will happen. It becomes from reproducible. It becomes predictive. But it all starts with observation. And one of the other rules of science is you can't throw out the data because it doesn't match your model. There is no model for how you get a new injury repaired and four hours that just, there's, nobody has a model for that. We had to create the model because we did it and then we did it and then we did it 40 or 50 times and then it's like, okay, we're doing this. So now what's the model? You can't throw out the data because it doesn't match your model. Nobody on the planet has ever reduced cytokines in 90 minutes. Nobody can't be done. Well, we did it. It's reproducible. It's predictable. Therefore you can't throw out the data because it doesn't match your model.

Speaker 4:                           00:28:37               This technology should be in every hospital in the ICU and the second people get into surgery, they should be hooking them up to this machine so that they walk out of the hospital hours or days sooner. Having sped up their healing like this should be standard.

Speaker 3:                           00:28:54               It's where get that's going to be another 10 or 20 years. I mean when we talk about medicine, we have to remember that we're talking about a profession that took 50 years to learn to wash its hands. Okay, so just sand. And it starts with where we're actually doing that. I have had both my hips replaced, this John Infection and gluten sensitivity caused my both my hips to degenerate, just crazy. So I had my hip replaced and normally hip replacement patients brews from there pretty much from their hip to their tow. The black and blue, I didn't bruise at all. And because the device is approved as if it is a tens device, I asked the surgeon, can I use this as soon as I get back to my room, I need to use it with them for hours. And he said, yeah, sure. So he wrote the orders.

Speaker 3:                           00:29:54               I get to use his written orders, said okay to use re weird chiropractic electrical gadget, but as long as he signed them, I didn't care and I didn't bruise. One of our practitioners is an ob Gyn. He's done. He actually did a collected case report with data and a control group on postoperative care for csection patients. Oh my gosh. They get out of the hospital half a day earlier and their pain instead of between being between a three and a seven is between a zero and a three. So they have less pain, use less meds, and they're out of the hospital half a day sooner. Okay, so we're starting, I mean, you've got the right vision. There is one frequency combination. The only thing that's good for his kidney stone pain, just the pain. You're out of pain in 20 minutes. You run out for an hour. Pain relief lasts for two or three days until you pass the stone.

Speaker 3:                           00:30:56               There's another set of frequencies and dissolve the stone. It takes research and case reports published before you can even do clinical trials. It takes research to get to move the needle, to move the information forward into the standard of practice. The drug companies invented, um, the gold standard, the double blind placebo controlled trial didn't use to be the gold standard. Most of medicine prior to 1990, they didn't do double blind. Placebo controlled trials wasn't the gold standard. But the pharmaceutical companies figured out that they're the only ones that can afford to do them. Right. They're incredibly expensive. Yeah. So, okay, so now that's where the bar is at. And I have spent 22 years training clinicians. I've published eight papers. One of our practitioners in the Ireland published a controlled trial on delayed onset muscle soreness. Um, one of our practitioners at Cleveland Clinic just published a paper on Torticollis. University of Leeds in England is starting the work on the SCLERODERMA project.

Speaker 3:                           00:32:12               So there are, so if it just was good for one thing, it'd be easy. But to move the research forward in all of these different areas, it just takes time. And clinicians don't publish papers. So I'm now got a tear of practitioners that are in medical institutions, in the higher institutions that are used to publishing. It doesn't scare them. So now that's, that's like the next step. And then you just keep on keeping on. I mean, I decided, do we have time for one more story? Oh yes. Oh, okay. We have all as much time as you have. Um, their early, early on, my, my biggest fear was like early on 97, 98, 99 my biggest fear was that I do something out of ignorance or, um, inexperience that would just screw this up and, and prevent it from getting out to a broader base.

Speaker 3:                           00:33:23               I was just like, you know, anxious about that. And um, so I had a patient who came in on a, on a Monday, she came, she was referred in 2000, I think from her pain doctor in Idaho. So she came over from Idaho on a Monday. She had fibromyalgia, have full body pain from an auto accident. Um, she had what used to be called R s d or complex regional pain syndrome, which is just an exquisitely painful, um, nerve pain condition where the nerves disconnect from the peripheral blood vessels in the sympathetics. So her right leg was 22 degrees colder than her left leg when, yeah, when they installed the spinal cord stimulator. So she came in on opiates with a spinal cord stimulator with her pain level at a seven to an eight, eight and a half on all that with the spinal cord stimulator in it and opiates.

Speaker 3:                           00:34:40               And we had already developed the 40 and 10 the fibromyalgia protocols. So I ran that. I had some experience with treating RSD. So the, the end of three hours on the first day she left the office painfree with the temperature in her leg normal and the sensation in her leg normal day too, she came in, her pain was a six, five, six, not an eight. Okay. We did the same thing. True to the RSD, treated the spinal cord, started treating her neck injury, left the office painfree third day. Body pain was pretty much gone. It was the fibromyalgia was gone by Wednesday. It's like, that's cool. So then Wednesday, Thursday, Friday we treated the RSD and so by Thursday the RSD was gone in the right leg. Friday we kind of finished it up and she was staying in her parent's motor home that was in a mobile home park here in Portland.

Speaker 3:                           00:35:46               And, um, it had a pool and I said, go home and swim, recondition and we'll see what's left on Monday. Well, what she did was she went back to the motor home and took herself off opiates over the weekend. So she spent the weekend sweating, chills, throwing up on the phone with her husband and Idaho. But by Sunday night she was off of opiates. So she comes in Monday. And what she had left was his low back pain from a fossette joint that had been slammed in the accident. So I started treating the muscles in our low back, the fossette joint, but I knew by Monday afternoon I was not going to get it by Friday when she had to leave. So I called, um, the physiatrist that used to be here in Portland that did my spinal injections. He was exquisitely competent, careful, compassionate. He was, um, little verse says, so people didn't have any pain during the procedure. It didn't remember it. And I called him Monday afternoon and I said, can you do her fossette joints on Thurs on a Thursday? They said, yeah, and get her in. I was like, Ooh, okay. No, actually it was Friday. So her husband came over from Idaho Thursday night, Roy slack injected her l three, four facet joint Friday afternoon.

Speaker 3:                           00:37:17               She's no nerve pain, no fiber Myalgia, nobody pain after the injection. She came in on Monday and it was done. She was completely pain free. Um, she had the spinal cord stim unit removed, uh, about eight, six or eight months later when we were sure it wasn't going to come back and it was done. And after her, after that I decided that if she was the only reason her recovery was the only reason that I had developed FSM, it was, it was all good. I was even like, there was no way I could lose or do anything wrong after that. And that was 18 years ago and she's still would covered. She's my friend on Facebook and her story is in the book, the resonance effect, which, um, got published by North Atlantic books, which is a subsidiary of penguin and Random House that got published in 2017, 18 2017 I think.

Speaker 3:                           00:38:27               Um, and so that story that, that book, the resonance effect is the story of all of this. How Fsm was developed, how all these cases, and it's got frequencies for the visceral conditions and uh, frequencies that talk about the treatment of asthma and how are we developed that and all of that. And the way that book came to be speaking of do it right and stay grounded was starting in [inaudible] 99 when I was treating fibromyalgia patients, people said, you have to write a book for patients. It's like, no, if you write up a consumer book, if you write a book for the patients first, you'll never be accepted by, by medicine. You have to do it in a certain order. So you publish clinical trials or papers first, then the next step is a textbook. And I did that and then the next step was going to be the consumer book.

Speaker 3:                           00:39:26               Well, I was just, there is, you're more likely to get struck by lightning twice than you are to get a book published by submitting an unsolicited manuscripts. So I didn't even bother. So October of, what did I start that? It was probably October of 15, 2015, um, I got a phone call from an editor at North Atlantic books and he said, I've had Crohn's disease for 15 years. One of your practitioners just put me into her mission in two weeks and four treatments. And I want to know why I've never heard of you. And it's like, why don't you have a book? And I said, nobody ever asked. He said, well, I'm asking now. So he sort of held my hand through the, the, um, submission and the chapter proposal. So you write a sample chapter two, and you submit the proposal. So I wrote something that was a little more textbooky than it should of, and sent it to him.

Speaker 3:                           00:40:35               He sent it back and said, no, unpack it. Tell the story. Okay. So that's where the resonance effect came from. So I wrote the first three chapters between December of 15 and March of 16, and then you start teaching seminars and there's no time. And then, um, I was supposed to write it in June and July of 16. It was due September and something came up. The people that were running the seminar company in the device company both left the same night the day before. I left for Kuwait to teach a seminar, so when I got home, I hired Kevin and I spent two months working in my office. I didn't see patients, I worked in the seminar office, learn how to run that, and then I still had chapters three through nine to right, so I went to Colorado and hold up in Roger Bilikiss mountain cabin and I wrote six chapters in eight days.

Speaker 2:                           00:41:46               Did you use the frequency machine declared calm your nerves to bring down stress levels to, is there a frequency for focus and calm?

Speaker 3:                           00:41:54               Oh yeah. It's like I don't, when you say every, it should be in everybody's house at this point. I don't know how people live without it. I had, because I got this mold infection, I'd gastro-paresis. I had, my Vegas was completely paralyzed and I had no gag reflex. I had reflux them. I had gastro-paresis Neil. Nathan took care of killing the mold and put me on prescription medications. I was on prescription meds for a year and a half, but the microcurrent kept me alive. I got rid of the paralysis and the Vegas in two weeks. How to gag reflex back I heart health and um, breast health to reduce inflammation. Treat my gut treat for sleep tree. Yeah. I treat myself every single night and we've got to a main magnetic converter that converts the electrical pulses to magnetic pulses, frequency specific magnetic pulses. So I get the little magnetic converted in my nightstand.

Speaker 3:                           00:43:02               I have my little custom care in my nightstand. I program it with the things I need most often. Common cold. Um, I don't get sick much, but uh, and I run it every night and so it's stuff doesn't scare me right. When you know you can get rid of it. Right. It's like really? I was playing water volleyball with this little beach ball and I, and I gave myself a partial thickness rotator cuff tear. It's like, really? Really? I just did that. That's okay. So I sit on the couch for two hours at night and fix it. How, how, it doesn't scare me. It just makes life so much fun.

Speaker 2:                           00:43:45               I think every listener now wants to be able to have one and do it themselves. So, so holistic practitioners, doctors, those with um, uh, a great deal of understanding of anatomy. Those people should take your courses. But what about the lay person? They should buy your book. And is there, is there a way for us as lay people to buy one of these machines and learn how to use it on ourselves? Goals?

Speaker 3:                           00:44:13               Well, that's a challenge because, um, yeah, the lay people buy the book, find a practitioner, um, get yourself treated. It's just, it's an incredible tool. The challenge and the, the courses aimed at medically trained. So when patients wander into the room, it doesn't usually go well. There's just because 50% of the classes differential diagnosis and that involves kind of a knowledge of how the system works. So if you wanted to treat yourself, let's say somebody has leg pain, I can't even, I've lost count the number of people that come in and say, I have Sciatica. And they, and they trace their hand down their leg and they've been told they have a Anika, right? They traced their hand down their leg and what the, uh, what they have as trigger points in the glute minimus, medias, exact it and it's down the side of the lake, not the back.

Speaker 3:                           00:45:10               But I have leg pain and my doctor says, I have Sayada come here and take Advil. Well if you treat the nerve and the disc, it's not going to do anything for the Turner points and the glute medius and minimus. And if you're going to treat the glute medius and Minimus, you actually Kinda sorta have to have an idea of why they develop trigger points in the first place. So yeah, you can get rid of the trigger points just with the micro, the frequencies and the microcurrent, but they're going to come back if you don't think about why they have them. So that is usually beyond the capacity of the average lay person or patient. It's actually sometimes beyond the capacity of some of my practitioners because it's like if you have leg pain that cy Attica and if you have trigger points and the muscle will then it's trigger points in the muscle, but you don't think about the fact that your Osi joint is loose and that's why you have trigger points in the glute medius and minimus.

Speaker 3:                           00:46:11               So you have to treat the Sei joint and the muscle and then leg pain goes away and it stays away. So that's why patients have, it's a little bit difficult. It's even FSM doesn't suit every practitioner as you can tell just from hearing the stories you have to like solving puzzles. Why? Why do you have an autoimmune disease? Yes he is. Yes I can treat the immune system but it isn't very satisfying. It's not permanent. It doesn't work. Why? Ah, then you have to have to kind of put the pieces together because the frequencies are very specific and that's, that is the advantage of some of the nonspecific stuff like the pulsed EMF devices in the electric mats and the magnetic mats that you just lay on this mat. And you feel better. Yay.

Speaker 4:                           00:47:09               That was my other question. I bet like the Bemer is a type of frequency Matt was, and obviously yours sound so much more complex. Um, it doesn't even seem like it compares to the Beemer, but low is the beamer in any way similar or these frequency mats, are they in any way similar to what you use?

Speaker 3:                           00:47:31               No. No, they're, all of them sort of hearkened back to the early days of microcurrent. If you look at the frequencies at the beamer uses or the other mats, they all run a frequency someplace below 10, three tenths of a hertz, three hertz, five hertz. Um, it's just an, I don't even know how they pick that number. How'd you, how did you decide on using that frequency in your mat? It's a pulsed EMF that pulses. So you want the frequency to pulse because otherwise the body gets bored with it. And some of them will even have found that if, if you run the same frequency over a long period of time, the body learns to ignore it. So they'll run one frequency for a little bit and then they'll change it to a different one, but there's a limited number of them and I don't know how they pick them.

Speaker 3:                           00:48:25               And so there they aren't going to hurt you. But, and most people report feeling better afterwards. Um, they've got some really nice thermography pictures, um, that I wish I had. But like I said, I trained clinicians who don't tend to publish stuff. Um, so they've got good PR, they've got good advertising. Um, in some cases, for some devices it's like their advertising is better than the product. You know, it's like they've got great ads and the product gives you some benefit, it's not going to hurt you. Um, so yeah, they're, they're, they, they work on a similar, sort of like the beemer or the pulsed EMF mats. Um, they provide a magnetic field that pulses will, every time you have a magnetic pulse, you move an electron, you make an electron, move moving. Electrons create magnetic fields, moving magnetic fields, move electrons. They make an electron move. So these pulsed EMF devices and nonspecific mats, um, increase energy, they reduce inflammation or they do what you can do by increasing ATP production. Okay. They don't have any proof that they increase ATP production, but that's the model and that's why if people feel better,

Speaker 4:                           00:50:08               you can't dial it in to the specificity that you, that your system does because you think you would have frequencies for Boone and then you've got another one for the kidneys and then the other one for the kidney stones. And so it's like you've got hundreds of hundreds of frequencies that you're your, most of what you do is diagnosing of what you do is get his, is doing that, uh, problem solving, getting to the root cause. Then knowing what, what area of the body in which frequency to use. So that's totally different than just lying on a mat.

Speaker 3:                           00:50:39               Right. And the Nice thing for the practitioners that come and take the courses, I've done the heavy lifting. It's like I, I they, they ended up with, um, booklet full of protocols. What do you use? And a machine that will even run the automated protocols in the certain freak sequence for certain conditions. So, and I've already made every mistake that anybody could possibly make. So they, they walk into something where they've got a background, so they're not just looking at this list of six pages of frequencies in tables and having to figure it out. That part, the basic construct of how to think about it, how to use it, what goes with what that's already been done in 22 years. Um, and but yeah, it's a whole different, that's a whole different critter. So somebody wants a a point and shoot like a laser or something that's just unintended. They put the patient on it, charge them 20 bucks and, and leave the room. It's just not, it's not how my stuff works. So there's a place for the other, I'm not dissing them, it's just different. Doesn't do what we do.

Speaker 4:                           00:51:59               Right. Could you give us, you've painted such a beautiful picture, but I feel like I'd like the full picture. Could you give us a, like a list off the top of your head of the types of practitioners that use this? So like you said, the Ob Gyn for example. Um, cause I can see like obviously you've talked about sports medicine, right, and autoimmune and chronic pain and just the list goes on on. So if you could run down, what are some of the most common types of doctors or therapists that come for your training and what kinds of patients do they have really great results with?

Speaker 3:                           00:52:34               Um, the people that we train, our um, medical physicians, we started with chiropractors in nature pass because they're the, they tend to be the early adopters. Medical physicians have certain constraints based on what is called the standard of care. They get hassled by their board if they try or use a lot of this alternative stuff in. Sometimes the boards get aggressive. So we started out with mostly nature paths, chiropractors than acupunctures. And then when Jeff Bland had me on functional medicine update in 2000, we started getting medical physicians that were functional medicine trained. And that is a perfect combination than 2003. Metagenics sponsored my seminars for three years and got me on a nationwide circuit instead of just four seminars a year, year here in Portland. We still do eight seminars a year in, uh, across the country. And so when I was with metagenics, their sales reps would calling on the functional medicine medical physicians, osteopaths, uh, than nurse practitioners, nurses, um, in certain states, massage therapists can use it.

Speaker 3:                           00:54:05               Um, and, um, so Florida, New Mexico, uh, Colorado, I think in now Oregon, there's certain states, so we have massage therapists. They have a little bit of trouble keeping up because they're not allowed to diagnose. And their knowledge of anatomy is not as detailed as people that have been through the more rigorous, longer training. Um, sports trainers, athletic trainers. It's really interesting. We've got devices with over 200 NFL and HL national football league, National Hockey League, uh, haven't made a big impact on the NBA. So basketball players, not so much. Um, some professional golfers whose names you would recognize and uh, weightlifters, Charles Pollock, when, um, met me at a lecture in 2002 and no, 2003, I guess. And then metagenics put me on their circuit and Charles Pollock when had his team of sports trainers, about 25 of them from all over the country and Canada came to a sports class that we taught in Phoenix in 2003.

Speaker 3:                           00:55:30               And um, so it's new injuries and um, performance. So right now we have a faculty member named Kim Pittas who is a massage therapist, but she's a sports therapist who is osteopathically trained. So it's, she's got specialized in extra training and she is designed a two day course for sports medicine people that, that and she's, her husband is um, uh, was a player in the NHL National Hockey League. Um, and they were playing in Europe. He got injured, he got treated with FSM, she took the course, got the bug, drank the Koolaid and she is treated of um, hockey players, new injuries, chronic injuries or problems with adhesions and motor coordination. And she is got this two day classes, sports medicine that integrates tissue recovery, changing scar tissue. So movement happens more fluidly. And then connecting the brain and the peripheral tissue with the frequencies to increase secretions in the cerebellum and the sensory and motor cortex. So you can re pattern a whole movement pattern. You can do what is effectively about three months worth of work in two hours, two days. It's nuts.

Speaker 2:                           00:57:09               That's awesome. Yeah. So cool. It is so cool. And earlier you had mentioned that spinal stenosis, a doesn't really see results. Um, is that 100% of the time or like a cervical stenosis? Are there any times when people are able to gain some traction with your therapy?

Speaker 3:                           00:57:30               You can, you can reduce the inflammation in the cord. You can reduce the adhesions in the Dura at the area of the stenosis. You have to be careful. There's something about what we do with the current that I think makes the spinal fluid move faster. And so the spinal fluid, we'll back up against the disk that's compressing the cord and the patient will get a headache if you polarize the current. So patients with stenosis have to be treated with alternating current and, and not polarized positive current, which is spinal cord. And the nerves love to be polarized, positive lymph edema and loves to be polarized. Positive. Um, so you have to treat them with alternating current. You can get the pain down. Um, and then when they get to a certain point, I, I just look at them and say, look, find a surgeon that you trust.

Speaker 3:                           00:58:24               Find somebody that the hospital nurses like, Ooh, get a source inside the operating room or inside the hospital and find out who's good and you go to that guy, get this taken care of, then I can fix it. I can treat you after the surgery, but I can't, it's, there are, there's a point at which is just dangerous. It's not good for the spinal cord, right. To be really that squished. And most of us don't discover spinal stenosis till it's too late. Right. Right. So yeah, it gets in the, we have to be careful with it, but it's not a contra indication. It's just you have to work around it and you can make the patient more comfortable. And if you can get the patient moving, sometimes the stenosis is gets better because the calcifications get reabsorbed. Give me, getting something to the body will reabsorb the calcium bone spurs get rid of bone spurs. It's easy. You just treat the connective tissue on the periosteum for calcifications and then you get the muscle and the tendon moving. And once it's moving now about two months, the bone spurs you on.

Speaker 2:                           00:59:40               So people who have a stenosis should at least attempt this. This is a good, uh, sure I'm good to go down this route and um, and see how far they get. Um, and then, you know, can s always, always surgery's an option, but to it's good to try everything else

Speaker 3:                           00:59:56               first. Oh, well and then treat you after surgery. Right? Yeah. So, and I mean, the other thing with this is with, with few exceptions, when you run a frequence, that was the first thing I spent the first year doing. It's like finding out that if a frequency doesn't work, is it going to hurt you? And after about a year, the answer was no, unless I dropped the box on your foot, it's not going to hurt. And it might help if it helps. It tells you something. If it doesn't help, well you look at it a different way and try a different thing. And sometimes what I do is not what's going to fix what you have. It's, it's not, it's not Harry Potter. It's reproducible. Right. Physics. Right.

Speaker 2:                           01:00:50               What about Parkinson's, Ms Als, these kinds of, you know, uh, longterm degenerative neurological issues dealing with a lot of inflammation. Um, have you seen the ability to put it into remission or to slow down? Yeah.

Speaker 3:                           01:01:06               Uh, the progress of it. Yup. With als and ms, I can't put tissue back that's not there. I can take off. We had one, I worked with a neurologist over the weekend, one, one year 98, 99 probably. And Pr, no, 99, 2000. Uh, we saw eight patients in two days and found out that if we take off scar tissue, if we removed the sclerosis can actually make the symptoms a little bit worse. Um, you can reduce the inflammation. So we had one patient, um, this was someplace in Colorado. We had one of her patients who was on an antiinflammatory diet, no gluten. He, as long as he stayed out of the heat, he had no symptoms of Ms. She'd put him with nutrition and um, micro crunch. She'd put him into remission and about 18 months. So that was magic. Um, and so we've had enough cases like that where you can slow the progression.

Speaker 3:                           01:02:18               I've data that says I can reduce all of the inflammatory cytokines and Leipe oxygenation cycle oxygenase mediated inflammation. I've got an objective data on that. So since als and ms are inflammatory, I've got data that says that's worth a try. It's not going to hurt you and might help slow it down with Parkinson's. I can't put tissue back that's not there. But we can, we done it enough times that I can say this, we can improve the symptoms for 24 to 48 hours to the point where the patient now walks normally doesn't have a tremor. Um, right. So we can improve the symptoms and you have to do things with supplements and functional medicine to improve the mitochondrial function in the substantia Nigra. So you treat the substantia Nigra with the frequencies for removing toxicity in degeneration, scarring and increasing secretions. When you increases secretions in the Basal Ganglia, it stops the tremor that's like we've done it enough times that it's that happens.

Speaker 3:                           01:03:48               Getting it to stay in our mission is supporting dopamine secretion in the body with nutritional supplements with lipoic acid and co Q 10 and vitamin e and fish oil and then um, tyrosine and phenylalanine to support, to provide in a copper to provide the precursors to dopamine. And when you do all of that, you can get Parkinson's intermission. I have a patient that was diagnosed with Parkinson's in 2005 and the neurologists that, and you've got a nickel's worth of Parkinson's. He had a significant tremor. Voice was real hoarse and weak. His face was lacking in expression is state. He is gate was still normal but it was stiff, his body was stiff and that's usually the way Parkinson's presents. So she put him on a ton of park of supplements and we treated his basal ganglion is substantial Niagara and took about eight months, but he's done.

Speaker 3:                           01:04:57               And that was 2005, 2006. It's 2019 and he is pretty bad about taking supplements, but it hasn't come back and I haven't treated him, he doesn't treat himself. He's about as stubborn as any to four year old human can be. I was like, wow, I'll treat it if it comes back, hasn't come back. It's like, okay. They caught it early. They did a comprehensive approach to creating a stable state for the tissue. That's a problem. And then they use fs. We used FSM as an adjunct. So camp a tissue back. This not their partial total rotator cuff tear or ACL tear is a terror. It's done. Have the surgery, I'll treat you afterwards. You could better in two weeks. That's easy. Partial thickness tear looks like we can fix that. Right? So they're like, once you can do, um, something, that's, what is that? There's a, there's a poster that I've seen, um, be realistic. Expect a miracle button. Be patient. The impossible takes slightly longer than the difficult.

Speaker 2:                           01:06:25               I like it. I like don't expect miracles from your body and be patient and support it. Give it the raw building blocks that needs. Take your supplements, eat the foods you're supposed to eat, avoid the foods that harm you. And a, it gets them. F S M right? You got it right. That is the plan. I like it. You got it. How can we find a practitioner? Do you have a list of practitioners, uh, that we can go search and find a local one?

Speaker 3:                           01:06:50               Yes, it is. Um, uh, it's on the website is www frequencies, specific.com that will have, it's got a, uh, links to the youtube videos to the webinars that we've done. Um, and it's got a, the seminar list. Um, for those of you that are practitioner trained and for the patients, there is a practitioner list that after, uh, let's see, 15, 17, 18, 17 years was largely inaccurate. It was incomplete. People had stopped using it. People retired, people died. There were still on the list. The patient had to call six providers to find somebody that was still doing it. So last year we made the list subscription and it cut down the number of providers that are listed on our practitioner lesson, but the ones that are there are paying $89 a year to be there. So their information is accurate and you can look at that list, find somebody near you and find out what their qualifications are, how many seminars they've taken, are they keeping up, um, uh, and all of that. So it's, it's smaller than it used to be, but it's, it's probably better.

Speaker 2:                           01:08:12               The whole thing sounds better to me. Frequencies, specific.com I'll make sure the links to everything that you do is going to be in the show notes of today's podcast and learned true health.com so we'll make sure that everyone has access to the links to your youtube and that list and your website. And especially your book, which I think everyone should get an purchase and give to their practitioners, give to their chiropractor and their doctor and their functional medicine practitioner and their nurse practitioner. And we should absolutely be handing your book out and telling people to listen to this episode and listen and read your book because I'd love to, uh, just to continue to get more and more practitioners certified so that this, uh, can be, uh, we can, no matter where we are in the world, we can go, oh, I, I tore my, I, you know, I ran and fell and tore my ankle and it's not a full tear and I really want to go find a practitioner within the next four hours and we can do that. Right? We need to have it be that popular or I know I'm going in for surgery or I want to be able to uh, heal as quickly as possible.

Speaker 3:                           01:09:19               Um, I have, I have two home that you hold that vision because I had is why they get less. You and we have had patients, we have had practitioners come to seminars where the patient went in, handed them the seminar schedule, handed them the book and said, I will pay for you to take the class. Brilliant. And there are patients that do that. I mean the classes, the four days and it's $1,200 1195 there are student rates. There are, but it's, it's an investment for a practitioner. And so there are patients that want to practitioner, well, you can create one, find somebody that's willing to try it and then do just exactly what you just described. I'd love it. Absolutely. Really,

Speaker 2:                           01:10:08               you know, if I was, if I had an illness that, you know, that needed to be healing and there wasn't a practitioner near me, I could absolutely see I'm doing that exact thing going to my chiropractor or my naturepath and saying, you know, all pay for you to take it and then, and then you treat me. That's it. Yeah, that's the deal. That's, that's wonderful. Um, I do have, I of course I've got a million questions for you, but I'll, I will definitely wrap it up. I'm going to make this interview at two part or, because I just, I could learn from you all day. I could listen to you. This has been wonderful. So soon when that, when the frequency lists was first created, the world was such a different place. We are now exposed to a far greater amount of, um, environmental pollutants and new, new chemicals. And I know in some ways back then, you know, in the 30s and forties, I mean, we, we had, we did have a huge load of toxins, um, like led in the gasoline for example, and you doing dirty coal and all that kind of stuff. But now we just have a, a much different load. We have environmental

Speaker 4:                           01:11:14               pollutants from microplastics and obesogens and endocrine disruptors and, and it's in our food and it's in our soil. And we've got, you know, the pesticides and herbicides that we did not have when that list was created. So there's a, a bigger need for supporting the body in detoxification of heavy metals and pesticides, um, PCBs, that kind of thing. Uh, for those people who are very toxic and they're having difficulty, uh, getting, getting this out of their body. Does your system support the kidneys and the liver to the point where they can really get the load out to get the, like noticeably get the heavy metals out? Have you seen great success with that?

Speaker 3:                           01:12:01               Yeah. Yes. And heavy metals in particular we don't cover in the course seminar. They're taught in the advanced and um, our snack, there's no ds detox reaction with it. And I've had enough patients that I treat with the frequency for arsenic. Their pain just goes down. Their headaches go away. That, that's easy. Mercury is another critter. Uh, and so I've made, I had one dentist that came in, he'd been really sick. He now gotten himself keylated and detoxed. And the first day I treated him with a frequency for Mercury for about 10 minutes. We were really careful and he felt better. Did Great. The next week he came in and he and I got sidetracked talking and I treated him with a frequency to remove mercury for 40 minutes. And he called the next day and he was as sick as he'd been. There was it, was it? So the frequencies for heavy metals in particular have to be used with a combined collaborative approach.

Speaker 3:                           01:13:11               So the practitioners that do have a metal culation you do oral or Ivy culation, that's just you, you do that. Frequencies are not a substitute in the advanced one. Talk about heavy metals in particular and you use, you pack the system with what it takes to bind the metals. I was so ignorant when I treated him in 98 99 I guess. So you, you have them take chlorella and clay and charcoal for two days prior to the time that you treat them and then you treat them. So heavy metals are tricky. Everything else, there are frequencies for organic toxins and regular toxins in organic toxins, certain poisons, but the toxin frequencies and um, so that and inflammation. So if, if somebody is toxic,

Speaker 5:                           01:14:12               okay,

Speaker 3:                           01:14:13               well the, the printer, another story. Sorry, but please. There was a, there was a printer who, who uh, Humana print print shop and he had been in business for 22 years. He'd been in pain for 17 of the last 22 years and he had run his business from bed for seven of the last 10 years. So he came in and he, he had trigger points are everywhere. His body pain was a seven and he said, I, I hear you're doing this trigger point therapy and I need you to treat my trigger points. And I'm looking at him thinking, if I dissolve one trigger point in this, in this guy, he's going to be sick for a week. I said, okay. So I didn't treat his trigger points. I treated toxicity and inflammation in the liver and the nervous system as a whole, I treated him for 20 minutes.

Speaker 3:                           01:15:21               At the end of 20 minutes, his pain went from a seven to a two. It never went above a two after that. So then the other piece of his depression and pain and sleep problems had to do with food sensitivities. Do you want to know what somebody is allergic to? You ask them what they eat and eat. I said, what do you eat every day? He said, oh, every night I had this huge bowl of popcorn, sometimes twice a day. I love popcorn. Okay. And then he said, I've had a bellyache since I was 10 every time. And I ate, my gut hurts and I've had a stomach ache since I was 10. Well the only people that have a stomachache since they're 10 or CELIAC or gluten sensitive. So I said, okay, here's the deal. You don't get any grains at all for six weeks.

Speaker 3:                           01:16:26               And they looked at me and I said, you've been sick for 35 years cause he was whatever, 10 he was 45 you've been sick for 35 years, give me six weeks. And he said, okay, now when their pin goes from a seven to a two they listened to you. So now his pain's a too. I tell him I want to go off of all grains. What am I going to eat? Well, you know, fruits, vegetables, meat, that that works. Okay, so we could have eggs. So all grains for six weeks. And at the end of a week, his belly pain was gone

Speaker 3:                           01:17:07               and at the end of three or four weeks, he was off of one or two of the three antidepressants he was on. He was off of one of the sleep medications and Monday of the sixth week he came in and he said, okay, now what do I do? I said, well, Friday, Friday you can have anything you want all day. They looked at me and he said, by Friday I said, well, if I'm right, you'll know by Saturday whether or not this makes a difference. So he came in the next Tuesday and he gave me this look and I went, oh, how bad was it? And I looked at him and he looked at me and I said, how long were you in bed? He said, all of Saturday and half of Sunday. He said, I can live with that popcorn. And that was it. He was done after being sick for 17 years?

Speaker 3:                           01:18:17               No, he had been exposed to toxins. So I treat it as liver and eye, but his pain was a combination of immune system activation because of the food sensitivities. So part of my challenge with people that say, Oh I, I feel this way or that way, or I have these symptoms or that pain because I'm toxic. Well maybe is it toxicity or do you have a disc bulge is giving you pain and that challenges your Vegas and so your liver stops working as well because as far as your Vegas is concerned, you're going to be dead in 30 minutes. So why would it detoxify anything or digest your food? So it's not just right. And so it's like practitioners that say, Oh, this is emotional or it's all in your head or because you were abused as a child. Well, yes, that's possible. But if, if the practitioner, if what the practitioner or does is not what's going to fix it, and the practitioner then decides, well, since he couldn't fix you, then it must be emotional.

Speaker 3:                           01:19:31               Once they, whoever says it's emotional, then it's your fault. Right? And so my master's degree is in psychology and counseling. So once it's emotional and it came from early childhood trauma, there is the idea in psychology and medicine that that takes years and years to fix. And so you're just doomed to be in pain because it's emotional. And I I to that in the most strenuous way. And usually my language is a little more colorful than saying that I object strenuously. And so, because I would say 80% of the people that I treated in the 10 years that I was in a really busy practice, they're all totally, it was in their head, they all had an early life emotional trauma because that sensitizes the midbrain, it's like, well that's not that hard to fix. So it's, it's like, yes, it's toxicity and inflammation will change a huge number of symptoms. They make your nervous system work better, they reduce your pain, it helps you with depression and sleep. And, and yes, they're toxins are different than they were in 1922

Speaker 6:                           01:20:59               yeah,

Speaker 3:                           01:20:59               but they're, the effect on the body is roughly the same. They change cell signaling. So that's the other thing. Oh my God, I'm not even sure if I wanted. Oh, you poor thing. Okay, so, but I have to just, just one little thing. So when we treat somebody for toxicity, okay, what we found over time is treating them for toxicity. Let's say toxicity in the brain changes brain fog, toxicity in the liver, changes liver tenderness and pain. Toxicity in the nervous system changes body pain. But when we treat people for toxicity, they don't have quote unquote detox reactions. They don't get sick. And if what we're doing is removing toxins physically, they should get sick. You should release them. It should pack up in the liver. You should have it the quote unquote detox reaction. And they don't. So after 15 years of trying to figure this out, this lady in Australia gave me a model for how that actually happened.

Speaker 3:                           01:22:10               She said, well, okay, these toxins are lipid soluble, they're fat soluble and your cell membranes are fat soluble and your nervous system membranes are fat soluble. So these organic toxins just slide right into the membrane and lay in the membrane. But they're laying in the membrane next to one of these receptors. Kind of like remember the key in the lock. These receptors that look like little antenna where you get this heavy organic chemical that lays in this membrane and it tilts the access of this receptor. It changes it. So now the cell doesn't work right, because this toxin just changed the receptor orientation and configuration basically electromagnetically are chemically right now, here's the problem you were exposed to when you were in Vietnam and got hit with the Agent Orange, right? All right, so there's cells change, but that was 1972 you don't have a single cell in your body that was there in 1972 right?

Speaker 3:                           01:23:31               You don't have a single cell in your gut that was there four days ago, right? So the cell turns over and when the cell membrane is replicated, that toxin gets released a little bit at a time in the liver can deal with that. The liver excretes at the kidney excretes it, but the signaling, when the cell gets reproduced, the antenna is reproduced in this same cattywampus configuration to the memory of the toxin is still there. The body is still remembering it. Yes, it changes the function. So what we do is we change the intent. We changed the antenna, we send a signal that reorienting re orients the antenna as it was before the toxin was there. So they don't tend to get detox reactions. Isn't that cool? That's so cool.

Speaker 2:                           01:24:27               It's very cool. Uh, I, I'm on the edge of my seat this entire interview and I definitely want to have you back on the show any time, any time you want to come teach, you want a platform to share information. Uh, you are welcome to come back here because we could dive in to all kinds of things. Okay. I've got one, one last one. Uh, I know, I know several people who have now, is it tinnitus or Tinnitus? Yeah. Right. Um, and I know that there's different causes of it. Have you had a positive results for that? Cause it can be like life changing. When someone has it, they can hardly hear but they're constantly hearing in noise and it keeps them up at night and it's almost like being deaf but constantly hearing a noise. Um, have you, have you had positive results with shifting that?

Speaker 3:                           01:25:21               Ah, I wish there, there's one kind of tinnitus that comes from trigger points in the SCM and that we can treat the trigger points and that goes away. But I got tinnitus after taking a baby aspirin every day for a year. My liver does not detoxify aspirin. And so the aspirin poisons, so aspirin and Advil, all of the INSEAD's poison the little hair cells in your coke cochlear. So I woke up with tinnitus after a year on baby aspirin and 2007 2008 and so I lived with it for a really long time and then my hearing got, so I really miss the quiet, but my hearing got so bad that my daughter said, mom, you need hearing aids. So I went and had a hearing test and sure enough I needed hearing hearing aids when I put the hearing aids in Tinnitus went away. So I order a lot of the stipular tests.

Speaker 3:                           01:26:20               So I called the audiologist at Good Samaritan and said, what is up with Tinnitus? And she said, well, tinnitus is like Phantom limb pain for your ears. When you lose high frequency hearing input into your brain, the high frequency sounds are the first ones that go in the coke Clia in the hearing mechanism that's in your ear, that little snail shell thing, the high frequency goes first. When the brain loses that input, it's like Phantom limb pain in the brain just starts humming to itself on the same frequencies that you just lost. And I can't put tissue back that's not there. So the way I treated my tinnitus, after taking whatever supplements they told me to take for Tinnitus, did zip for six months. I finally got hearing aids and now my tinnitus is down by 80% as soon as I put my hearing aids in because I have input. Got It. So the aspirin,

Speaker 2:                           01:27:24               uh, damaged damaged tissue. Yeah. Got It. Yep. Yeah. And there's different causes of it. So you're saying if someone has it, they should definitely go to a practitioner that that practices FSM just in case their tinnitus is, uh,

Speaker 3:                           01:27:41               I do the triggers thing I would do would be yes. That's a possibility. If you reach up and grab your SCM and it hurts, well then, okay, go to see an FSM practitioner. But if somebody else has tinnitus, go get a hearing test. Right. See An audiologist. It's like, I, I live very comfortably with one foot in each of both worlds. You can do both. Yes. Go get your hearing tested. I got to tell you from experience, it's worth every penny you spend on proper hearing aids and go see an FSM practitioner to make sure your sem is behaving itself.

Speaker 2:                           01:28:17               There you go. Very cool. Oh my gosh. I just have a million questions, but um, we'll have to do this again. Have to do this again because I mean, I just, I respect you so much and I just want to get, I, I'm, I'm now one of your cheerleaders. I want to get your information out and I want, I want all the practitioners to know about. I seriously have a list down this entire page of people and what to call and tell them about you. So I'm really looking forward to having you back on the show would be so great. Thank you so much for coming and sharing with us today. Is there anything you'd like to say to wrap up today's interview?

Speaker 3:                           01:28:57               Oh, I just want to tell you how grateful I am to have a platform in a way to get the word out there is, there is no reason. It's just not right that FSN is the best kept secret in the country. So getting the word out is the next step. We spent 22 years building a foundation of credibility and well trained practitioners, good equipment and reproducible results so that now when we get the word out, patients can find a practitioner near them that's trained and there's, there's two, two things. If I had a Hashtag it would be, you don't have to live with it, right? There's, there's nothing that's 100%, but you don't necessarily have to liquid live with it. So FSM means hope. That's, that's what's important is that some may not be 100%, but it means hope. It means that there's an opportunity for a new way of looking at things in a new way of treating things, to contribute to the patient's comfort and wellbeing.

Speaker 3:                           01:30:11               And then the other, the other thing I would close with is what we close every seminar with. Um, and that is, it's not a mission statement. It is. It's what we do. Frequency specific microcurrent is, is changing medicine. That is after 22 years. That is the truth. But it's changing medicine one patient at a time. When you treat a patient who had stroke pain and that patient is out of pain in 60 minutes and can treat it reproducibly and predictably, that changes the doctor that treats that patient. And that ultimately when you get a big enough pool that changes medicine. But it's too big a job to change medicine. But I can change one patient at a time. And then my job is to change patients' lives, one practitioner at a time. Every practitioner that I train that goes to seminars and you can watch the light bulbs go off in their head.

Speaker 3:                           01:31:21               You can watch them get it on day two, it gives me goosebumps. So you change patients' lives, one practitioner at a time. And those, the important thing about FSN is not so much what I've done with it as far as I'm concerned. That's not the important part. The important part is that it's reproducible and teachable. And that every practitioner that I train, especially in the last five or six years, can go out and do good things on their own. And then when you think about it, what our true mission is, is that changing even one patient's life can change the world. Yeah. So that patient that had the RSD and the fibromyalgia that in two weeks was completely recovered and it was permanent. How did the world change? Because Shawna Haggerty was out of pain and a good mom, um, and a productive citizen and a happy person.

Speaker 3:                           01:32:19               How did, how did her joy radiate out into the world? And it's such a way to change her family, her home and her community, so that's what we do and I would just invite anybody that's listening who has a similar set of of goals and objectives and preferences that you join us and try it out. Can't hurt. Might help. Absolutely. I definitely will. Thank you so much doctor Carolyn McMakin. It's been such a pleasure having you on the show. This isn't goodbye because they know, hey, I only want to have you back and I know listeners, we'll be sharing this episode. We're going to turn this ripple into a tidal wave and help as many people as possible to find true health. Thank you so much. Thank you so much Ashley. It's been a real pleasure.

Speaker 1:                           01:33:16               If you have blood sugar issues and you're looking to finally resolve them, I would love to work with you. Please go to blood sugar coach.com put in your information and you'll be able to book a free 30 minute session with me and we can see how I can help you. I have personally resolved my own type two diabetes. I am no longer a diabetic, and I did so with natural medicine. I've gone on to help a lot of people to also completely resolve their blood sugar issues so that they now have normal blood sugar. So if you'd like to no longer have blood sugar issues, please go to blood sugar coach.com that's blood sugar coach.com I look forward to working with you.


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