Episode Fifty-Seven – Scarring vs. Torn and Broken

Carolyn McMakin, MA, DC Kim Pittis, LCSP, (PHYS), MT

0:16 – CRPS – Complex Regional Pain Syndrome 4:25 – “Knifeless Surgery” Torn and Broken. When to use 13 and when to use 24 8:51 – Thinking through the treatment 9:18 – Scarring – Adhesions 9:55 – Scarring happens for two reasons 10:23 – Trochanter Bursitus 19:35 – Knee pain 24:15 – Dentistry in FSM 36:32 – Scarring vs Torn and Broken 39:20 – Ehlers Danlos 42:15 – Flexion extension 48:00 – Two powerful forces 48:38 – METH – John Paul Catanzaro

Episode Fifty-Seven: Video automatically transcribed by Sonix

Episode Fifty-Seven: this mp4 video file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Dr. Carol:
Then it should be fine.

Kim Pittis:
Yes. I don't know.

Dr. Carol:
Guess what I got to do this week.

Kim Pittis:
What?

Dr. Carol:
Okay. Wait. Do you have a place where the train is going to go?

Kim Pittis:
You can start the train.

Dr. Carol:
That's completely off the rails.

Kim Pittis:
You start today.

Dr. Carol:
I'm so excited. So the patient I saw on Monday is somebody that I saw in 2000. In 2000 she was a fairly straightforward 40/10 patient.

Kim Pittis:
I'm going to pause you right there. When you say 2000, and so that was like two or three years ago. No, that was 22 years ago.

Dr. Carol:
Yeah, 22 years ago. Yes, 2000. Not 2020. 2000.

Kim Pittis:
Yeah.

Dr. Carol:
22 years ago she was a 40/10 fibromyalgia. She stayed for a week, she was out of pain. Blah, blah, blah. Then six years ago. She fell or something happened. So she basically shattered her ankle and she was walking around on bone for six years. And then two years ago they did an ankle replacement. And that's a good face.

Kim Pittis:
What did they replace?

Dr. Carol:
What joint? The talus. The fibular joint and the Coccydynia joint. And the surgeon said, it's really a good thing that you waited because the hardware, used to be, he didn't use probably the word suck, but the hardware didn't use to be the best, and now it's really improved. So they did the surgery and she ended up with CRPS. Damage in the nerves, superficial and deep perennial nerves, given the sensory distribution in her foot.

Kim Pittis:
For the laypeople listening CRPS is complex regional pain syndrome.

Dr. Carol:
Which used to be called reflex sympathetic dystrophy. And neither one of them means anything yet. Complex regional pain syndrome is the name you get for RSD when you lock, I think it was six neurologists in a room for a weekend and say you have to create a new name because it doesn't have anything to do with reflexes. It's pathetic and not very many people get dystrophic. And they said, So we need a new name. So now when there's nerve pain, they don't understand, they call it CRPS. So anyway, so she has damage to these peripheral nerves and that was the reason she was coming to see me. And then she said the bottom of both my feet always burn. And I said, Would you mind filling out the pain diagram? Because she circled just her ankle? And I said, Sure, fill out the pain diagram. And she circled the back of her neck in between her shoulder blades, both shoulders, both elbows, both hands, both hips, her low back and both knees. And I said, Oh, okay. So it was one of those wonderful events where she's a 40/10 for the laypeople. That's a fibromyalgia patient.

Dr. Carol:
She's back to where she was 22 years ago, 40/10. 40/89 because when you have complex regional pain syndrome, basically a peripheral nerve is damaged and disconnects from the peripheral tissue. It's like phantom limb pain when you still have the limb. Yeah. Okay. We did 40/89 to quiet down the phantom limb pain for the foot that was still there. And then from the knee to the foot did quiet the nerve inflammation. And then increase secretions in the nerve. She came in with her pain at a six or seven. Left with her pain at a one or two. Yay. Then the second day she came in, Oh, and it only lasted 2 to 4 hours. So the next day she came in and I said, Our goal today is to improve the motion in your ankle. And this is the fun part. We did 40/10. The nerve in her foot was pins and needles. So from knee to foot 40/396. A second unit for increased secretions in the nerve. And then started taking apart the scar tissue in the nerve in her calf and her foot. That was really sensitive. And then I figured it was scar tissue. At the joint because in order to replace the joint they have to take everything apart.

Kim Pittis:
They're breaking it first.

Dr. Carol:
Yeah. Yeah. And they like you're hanging there with soft tissue, and then they put in this titanium thing. I did scarring and everything and didn't get it. It's torn and broken.

Kim Pittis:
Can you get out of my brain? Because that is literally on the list about when to use 13 and when to use 124.

Dr. Carol:
I started with 13. And the thing to keep in your mind is the frequencies never don't work. When scarring in the blood vessels, scarring in the bursa, scarring and the periosteum, when that didn't work. If you take apart the ankle, what's going to happen to the connective tissue? Most of the tendons in the ankle, in the foot, are round? I did 124 and 191 and the pain started dropping in seconds. Torn and broken in the round tendons, the connective tissue. Originally she couldn't get her ankle to 90 degrees. Couldn't get it straight up. At the end of about 20 minutes, her foot was straight up. And then she said, it hurts right there. And right there was where the prosthesis bumped into the periosteum that were on the tarsal. Right. So I did inflammation and torn and broken in the periosteum. And she said, Oh, that doesn't hurt at all. So then we switched. Or I might have hooked up another machine and did increased secretions in the cerebellum. Did 40/89. Don't be afraid to move it. It'll be fine. Quiet down the midbrain. What did Ben say about the amygdala? Put a muzzle on it.

Kim Pittis:
Put a muzzle. Put it in time out.

Dr. Carol:
Time out. And then increase secretions in the cerebellum. And I had her first point or toes and then push my fingers. Point and then resistance in both flexion and dorsiflexion and planar flexion. Wiggling toes. Scarring in the nerve was a big deal. Scarring in the arteries if you look at the anatomy. Torn and broken and the connective tissue. Torn and broken and inflammation in the lining of the bone, inflammation in the bone itself, and metallic toxin in the bone. And this woman that's been living at a six or seven pain for a really long time got up. And walked around the treatment room barefooted with her pain at a one. I just love going to work.

Kim Pittis:
How do you not love going to work? There's a question I think that popped up, but I wanted to circle back before we answer it.

Kim Pittis:
About this concept, because I'm at this really juicy spot of my career teaching. I understand why the Core changed so much, because I look at the Sports Course right now, because our next one is in February, and I'm getting ready, changing things. And I'm like, I can't possibly teach it like this anymore. So the biggest shift that we've seen with the way you're teaching it, the way I'm trying to teach it, the way we're trying to work together as FSM practitioners is not only thinking what's on A, what's on B, but why did this condition happen in the first place? It's almost kind of like where Functional Medicine is so different than your conventional stuff. You're anemic. Why are you anemic? We're asking why.

Kim Pittis:
When we have scarring and when you're a manual therapist, you can feel it. If you're not a manual therapist, you're testing for it. You'll see it in the restriction. Something is tight. You start thinking about 13 or 91 or 51. We've got all these options and then when that doesn't work, you have to just take your hands off and sit for a minute because you know it's scarred. You can feel it scarred. But why did it get scarred? Scarring happens. And this is what my new slides are all about. Scarring happens for two reasons. One, something stretched or torn and broke and then it scarred as it healed or something scarred because it was immovable. It was stuck like we see in frozen shoulder. You stop moving it and then it tightens up.

Dr. Carol:
It's adhered. Not so much scarred. It's also important to remember that torn and broken leads to bleeding. Bleeding leads to scarring. One of the patients I saw yesterday, his complaint was trochanter bursitis. The orthopedic surgeon offered to do the injection and he said, no, I'm going to Portland. I'll check with you when I get back. And trochanter bursitis does not come from space. And he laid down on the table and his left leg, left foot, plopped out at about 45 degrees and his right foot was at about ten degrees

Kim Pittis:
externally rotated?

Dr. Carol:
Internal rotated. Externally rotated. So when it's like this, that one's like that. And I went, that means that something is holding your leg in internal rotation. So I reached up. Towards his pectineus and brevis and put my pointy little fingers in there. And he went, Ow! Okay, there we go. So we did scarring in the nerve, scarring in the artery and chased that around. And then got around to the back side of the issue tuberosity, and that was torn and broken. The bursa was scarred but the tendons were torn and broken because as soon as we got the scarring out of the nerve and the artery on the internal rotators, all of a sudden both feet are flopped out at 45 degrees. Then treating the trochanter bursa and the tendonopathy in the camellias of all things. It wasn't just the glute that was inhibiting.

Kim Pittis:
Was it me that glitched?

Dr. Carol:
Yep. Froze? No. You were frozen on my computer, Carol. For the last. I was frozen too?

Kim Pittis:
You this time.

Dr. Carol:
Yeah. You might need to repeat that last thing you said. What I said. Oh, anyway.

Kim Pittis:
Yeah.

Dr. Carol:
So the trochanter bursa was because the internal rotators were stuck. The external rotators, including the melees, the glute was inhibited because it was anterior and it was protecting the femoral nerve. The external rotators were also inhibited and stuck. And there's this bursa.

Dr. Carol:
And then the poor little Gemelli. Well if the piriformis can't do it. We'll volunteer. We can do it, Coach. Really? No, dude, you're that long. Thank you very much for your service but…

Kim Pittis:
How do I unpack all that? Especially when it comes to the hip. The hip is such an easy joint, but it has so many compensated applications. The range of motion is very simple. It's the reason why most colleges start with the hip because it's flexion-extension, internal-external rotation. When we as practitioners are looking at the hip, so you're just talking about, we're always assessing. The minute your patient walks in the door, that's when you're doing your gait assessment. You're not telling them to walk up and down the hallway where they're all guarded and freaked out and they know that you're watching them. So when they're lying on the table and after you treat them and like you said, you're looking at external rotation on the table and the left foot flops out in the right foot stays straight, you should be thinking it's not about a weakness. There is a tightness in the antagonist preventing that foot from flopping out. So you're thinking right away, I'm going to the internal rotators. You go to your most common criminals, right? The Pectineus, brevis, they're always like working against you. They're little conspiracy terrorists.

Dr. Carol:
The femoral plexus comes all the way down through there, and they're protecting it.

Kim Pittis:
Right? So when you're thinking about structures, to your point, it's not just connective tissue and muscle belly. You've got this huge plexus of nerves, vessels, arteries you name it. All of that can get adhered together. And of course, the muscles are just going to continuously splint to protect those vessels and nerves and all the other things.

Dr. Carol:
And the other ones are inhibited.

Kim Pittis:
And the other ones are inhibited. They're not weak. If one more person walks into my clinic to tell me they have weak glutes, I'm going to scream. And I'm going to put it on YouTube because especially athletes, they don't have weak glutes. They have inhibited certain slips of certain muscles, but they're never really weak.

Dr. Carol:
We're both frozen?

Kim Pittis:
We're both frozen.

Dr. Carol:
But the audio works.

Kim Pittis:
The people who are listening to us on audio get it? It's just we're going to be glitchy on YouTube. So hopefully that part makes sense because a muscle doesn't in its entirety become weak. When we talk about this cascade of what we do, when something is tight and something is torn and broken, and where do I start? I typically do still start with 13, right? If something is adhered, something is scarred. I'll go to 91.

Kim Pittis:
I typically still start with the scarring until I'm proven otherwise, because sometimes it is just scarred. And if that's not working, then you have to think, How did it get scarred? Did it tear, did it overstretch, did it repeatedly overstretch over time, like we see with athletes who have continuous micro-trauma going on that leads to macro-trauma. And then incomes 40/89. When something hasn't moved for so long, I will always do a drive-by on 40/89. I don't have to wait for somebody to get up off the table and try to move. I'm just going to put it on there. But to your point, when you're talking about the guy and his hips just fell into external rotation, he wasn't afraid to go into external rotation. So maybe you're not spending that much time with that individual with 40/89 because he was like, ahhh.

Dr. Carol:
But he was the thing. I did run 40/89 without talking to him because it was more painful than it should have been. When I palpated up in the pectineus and the crevice area and where the femoral nerve artery vein complex comes down? There was no tightness, there was no tone. There was no nothing. It was ow, that hurts. Okay, so release that scar tissue and then using 30% of my normal grip, pressed and he went, Oh, yeah, there is something. It's like his brain was looking for it. And he has a fairly stressful life situation. And he doesn't have a lot to think about except the restriction in his hip. So I had one machine running on 40/89. I admire the people that want to use just one machine for a longer period of time.

Kim Pittis:
Did we lose her again? I don't know what else I can shut down because Carol just froze again. So I'm going to try to I don't know if it's me. I don't know if it's her. I don't know if it's the Zoom universe. No audio either. Thank you for the people that are chiming in on the chat. I'm still going, so I'll just keep on talking until Carol joins us again. Okay. When you freeze, I'm just going to keep jumping in and I'll just finish your sentences for you.

Dr. Carol:
So 40/89 and then 81/84. So this whole concept of, he wasn't afraid to move it, he was experiencing more pain than objectively there should have been. I did have 40/10 running. And then added another unit with just 40/89 to quiet down the central stuff. Because that diagram we have, I think it's even in the core now. If you have pain in your knee, the nociceptors in the knee, go up the cord and sensitize the cord, go up to the thalamus and the cerebellum, to the thalamus, to the sensory cortex all work together. And even though you have pain in your knee or your hip the thalamus, the midbrain, tells the cerebellum, this is painful, protect it. And it tells the sensory cortex, yeah don't move that stuff. When he moves his hip, you listen to me and I'll tell the cerebellum and we'll just get him from the living room to the kitchen. And you just don't worry about what fires went.

Kim Pittis:
And that whole complex that you just talked about was the reason why I did the second day of the Sports Course, because you can't possibly I don't care if you're an athlete or not, you can't possibly move effectively and efficiently after treatment without it.

Kim Pittis:
In the old days before FSM you were getting these results that what we're getting in a day or two days took months. I can honestly say that as someone who was there in the trenches with it. So maybe there was that slower adaptation because the nervous system and all that whole cascade that you talked about up the chain had a longer period of time to be making these adjustments because you were only incrementally increasing range of motion.

Dr. Carol:
When the brain had time to get used to it.

Kim Pittis:
And that's what I mean. So it wasn't afraid to do it. It had these little baby steps. So it's like slowly walking into the ocean when you have that grade of where you're as opposed to just dropping off. And that's what we do. And I get it. It can be really scary to increase that much range of motion and take pain down that fast. It wouldn't be plausible to think that the nervous system would have an opinion about that or be okay with that, for that matter. I think it's a great idea if you have even if you have at least two machines to have some sort of especially when you're. Especially when you're breaking apart so much scar tissue to have something like 40/89 running. Like I'll always say I'm going to run something on the background, or it used to be concussion protocol or it used to be something, but if I know I'm going to tear it, I don't want to say tear apart or I'm going to increase someone's range of motion, I'm going to see adhesions. I know there's going to be a big shift. I will absolutely run 40/89 on a separate machine because it just is going to make that last 20 minutes of when I'm doing like the active stuff does that much easier for me.

Dr. Carol:
I always run 40/10 because any peripheral pain has spinal cord sensitization and Jay Shaw is coming. Mary Ellen Chalmers is doing 60 to 90 minutes at the Advanced on FSM in dentistry, but FSM in head, neck and face pain. Now that she has her master's of science in head, neck and face pain from UCLA or USC.

Kim Pittis:
I'm so glad that you brought that up because the beginning of this talk before, I don't know if everybody joined, but I was freezing. Normally I'm in California and it's still 85 degrees and I'm always running around in t-shirts and tank tops. And it's the first time I've had this full zip up because I was at the dentist and I had I've been having wonderful experiences at the dentist the past ten years, but I still have some sort of PTSD as a child walking into a dental office. And I freeze. I want to tell a story about the first time I met Mary Ellen, I believe it was at. It was when she got her award, her Ruth Johnson award or her Leif Award, I can't remember. But she was given an award. Ruth Johnson.

Kim Pittis:
And I was so excited and the Advanced think it was my second or third one. And you're going through the track of all the different speakers, and I believe she was like in the ballroom doing like a general talk for everybody. And I was going to ditch and go get a snack or go to my room because I thought, why would I care about something with dentistry? It changed the way I practiced with everything. Not even just head and neck but she was talking about, I think it was failed root canals and just this constant inflammation that's happening. And the way she explains such a complex component of health in these easy-to-break-down terms. When the body is so busy fighting this low-grade infection or dealing with the inflammation, it has no stores to deal with anything less musculoskeletal-based.

Dr. Carol:
So immune system activation, constant.

Constant. And I was really lucky because when I was practicing in Canada, a really good friend is a dentist. He had 3D cone beam imaging, so I was on the plane. I'm like, Scott, you have to get this. And he's like, Kim, I have one. You've had them. I'm like, Okay, just checking, just making sure because it's really important. I thought you were at like a physical medicine conference. I'm like, I am like, Why do you know about this stuff? So long story. Endless. Anybody who's listening right now, if you were going to come to the Advanced be very excited because Mary Ellen is not only an amazing speaker and a brilliant dentist, but the way that she will merge the two worlds, your life will be forever changed. So I don't understand how long the Advance is going to be. It sounds like with all the speakers that you have, we're going to be there about three and a half weeks.

Dr. Carol:
Something like that. But the nice thing is we have the Advanced for two days, Thursday, Friday. And the symposium is Saturday, Sunday, and that's how we get everybody in. I emailed Jenn Sosnowski and asked her if she would be our Functional Medicine speaker.

Kim Pittis:
The feedback that I don't know if you've been getting them, but I've been getting emailed directly because I interviewed her obviously when you were gone that people have been listening to it three and four times because Jenn is such an intense, passionate, fast speaker and there is really so much packed into that episode. So there's been great feedback, so I can't wait to have more of Jenn.

Dr. Carol:
I'm hoping she says yes, that she has to. Yeah, so that she'll be there on Friday and if we do 60 minutes slots, the dive into the material is not as deep, but we get. A bigger variety of speakers. So if we do 90-minute slots, we only have two speakers in an afternoon. If we do six.

Kim Pittis:
She was 60 Minutes blocks are also better for adult learners. I have to say. I take these little webinars on Mondays when I can on physical medicine, and 60-minute slots are actually much better for adult learners because we apparently don't have 90-minute attention spans anymore. We have 20-minute attention span. We are decreasing the way we focus on things.

Dr. Carol:
Okay, good.

Kim Pittis:
Great. And then before I forget, the Sports Course and the Sports Advanced are also going to be during that time. The calendar is on frequencyspecific.com website, however, I'm taking all the signups myself. To take the Sports Advanced you have had to take Sports Core, so know that. We already have, I think four or five people signed up, so I'm going to cap the classes really small. 20-24 Otherwise it's a zoo because we just do too much. So register early.

Dr. Carol:
We're going to Chicago next on the 22nd and 23rd. If 30 people.

Kim Pittis:
Of course you do.

Dr. Carol:
Of course we do. We're back.

Kim Pittis:
Yeah, I think. Oh, and then also to note on to what I was just going to talk about, there is no FSM Sports livestream. I'm I've cut that out too much. Got lost in translation with my course anyways not being there in person to touch and feel and jump off of tables and take your neighbor's foot and put it up there. I don't think I'll be offering the livestream option in some very specific cases. I might be, but I think it just has to be. It's an in-person. That was my gut all along to do it as an in-person only.

Dr. Carol:
And yeah, and do they need to take like the pin and injury or the five day before they take the sports or they can do sports by itself.

Kim Pittis:
You can be an FSM newbie and just take the sports course because I put together a prerequisite slide package that they can learn at home before they come to the sports that we worked together on years ago. So it has all the theory and some of the videos of the lecture component of how FSM works and the history stuff that you don't need me to be talking about, so that when you come to the sports, you've got a little bit of background anyways, you've got that prerequisite slide package.

Dr. Carol:
It's going to be so much fun.

Kim Pittis:
So much fun. I want to talk about, do we answer the questions or do we just… Let's answer the questions first. Debbie had asked, I think when you were talking about your patient that you saw, why didn't she come to you after surgery for help? Only asking. Because I've had clients who have gone away from me. Zero out of ten in pain and life, something happens. She doesn't come back and she goes somewhere else first.

Dr. Carol:
Oh, no. She lives in California.

Kim Pittis:
And then Dana. Yes. My first experience is success with frequencies is the Sonicare toothbrush, no cavities. And then I also have a Sonicare that I love dearly. And I don't have cavities because of that. And some other things. I don't know.

Dr. Carol:
Yeah.

Kim Pittis:
Okay. Cynthia wrote is not in pain anymore, so that. Oh, hang on. Let's go back, you.

Dr. Carol:
Know, because dress the discomfort. So remember when a patient is ticklish.

Kim Pittis:
So can you finish reading the question? Because not everybody can read it and people are listening to you.

Dr. Carol:
Would one of the pain protocols address the discomfort associated with detangling a child's hair? Is the power as positive still neck defeat for something like this? The protocol for making somebody not ticklish. I had somebody where I had to treat his hip and you touch his skin and he just broke into giggles. I hooked him up neck to feet and ran 40 on A and the sensory and motor cortex on B. And left it on while I hooked up the stuff for his hip. And then I put my hands on him and didn't kick on, he said. It feels as if it should tickle, but it doesn't. How did you do that? So to quiet down hypersensitivity. 40/92 might work. And then the other. The other thing is they have the detangling spray. We use it on horse's tails and it just makes it slippery. And then you just go slow and you let the kid watch the favorite cartoon and Ellie and yeah, that's a baby. And then just go slow and use the detangling spray. But 40/92 might work. And with the kids, the wet towels might not be their favorite or the wet wraps might not be their favorite. So you might even try just the Magnetic Converter stuck in the back of their shirt and in the front.

Kim Pittis:
And he's asking, is that stuff called hoof and mane?

Dr. Carol:
I don't know about hoof and mane, but.

Kim Pittis:
There's so many spraying. I have three teenage daughters. Trust me, when they were little, you need it. And sometimes just a wider tooth comb, especially when the hair is wet and then it's easier than using a skinny toothed comb.

Dr. Carol:
That's one thing.

Kim Pittis:
That's just a mom thing. Yeah. That's not a that's not a science thing at all. All right. Cynthia has a question.

Dr. Carol:
Saw a client with multiple old neck traumas from barefoot skiing, water that's bad, winter skiing, broken clavicle. Is there any way to break a clavicle without also doing the neck walking the dog? One day, about five years ago, Dog was not pulling. Ha ha. Something just gave. He was ten and ten. Nerve pain went to the ER. Opiates don't touch nerve pain. He got a shot of cortisone in the rhomboids. Okay?

Kim Pittis:
Pain went down.

Dr. Carol:
Hyperesthesia had physical therapy. Hyperesthesia four, five and six. Dermatomally atrophy and the upward trap to about. Oh. Around the neck protocol. He's not in pain anymore. So that's not an indicator. Cynthia do a Babinski. Atrophyed upper trapezius bad. Atrophy, muscle bad. The Babinski upper and lower reflexes. Yeah, that's. Well, an MRI would be really good idea. That's usually the physical exam. Muscle strength and reflexes will tell you what the MRI is going to look like, but the MRI actually tells you whether or not it's safe to treat conservatively. Linsky tells you whether or not it's safe. Showed nothing? No. Just no.

Kim Pittis:
Hyperesthesia C-4 to 6 with atrophy in the upper trap?

Dr. Carol:
And the MRI. So there's two kinds of radiologists. There's one kind of radiologist that says normal degenerative changes. That is meaningless, like no meaning, zero meaning. So you put up the sagittal section and what is. A mild degenerative changes at C-3-4. A one millimeter bulge at 4-5. Two millimeter bulge touching the fecal sac at 5-6. Three millimeter bulge touching the fecal sac and making a slight indent at C-6-7. Yeah, that's a report.

Kim Pittis:
So she wrote, right? His report. So is he just saying the MRI showed nothing or you actually saw the MRI report and it was all normal. Because that's. I never take patient's words for anything. So I'm like, just show me.

Dr. Carol:
I don't even take the radiologist report. If a radiologist writes a report. There's one radiologist where I always ask for an addendum by somebody that actually reads them in detail, and these days they send them on CDs and then I have to read them here at the office and find the sagittal sections and then you can see the other.

Kim Pittis:
He said. The doc said it showed nothing. I'd like to see what he thinks. Nothing is though. Because nothing to somebody is a whole lot to other people.

Dr. Carol:
And part of the challenge with medical physicians is somehow they have the idea that in order to inflame a nerve, a disc has to touch it. And they seem to have missed about four, five articles in spine that show that the discs do come an e-mileanalyzation of nerves and inflammation of nerves. They don't have to be anyplace near it. There's that.

Kim Pittis:
So there's that. All right. Any other questions before I get going on my little story?

Kim Pittis:
There is. Minette had a quick question, but I want to just talk about the stuff that I wanted to talk about really quickly, and then we'll go back to Minette and the other questions that pop up. So why I wanted to talk about the whole 13 versus 124. So scarring versus torn and broken was a patient that I had who was in a motor vehicle accident that I knew had scarring in the dura. I knew that was one of the limiting factors that I needed to work on because everything else was falling into place. The mechanism she was rear-ended. You just know there was that flexion-extension. Scarring in the dura, wasn't doing anything, and I was following it to a tee. Getting her to move. It was still painful. Everything was still it was becoming more tight as she was moving. Towels off, got back on the table. The dura didn't get tight from not moving it. It was a flexion-extension injury. It was torn first.

Dr. Carol:
Makes perfect sense.

Kim Pittis:
And this is why, I was like, it never not works. I know that it is scarred. Why did it get scarred her back? She still continued to flex and extend. She's still a human. We're not walking around like Lego characters. So there was still mobility. It was scarred first, it was torn first, and then the scarring that it happened was just mending what was torn and broken. So I went back even further to, it bleed it tore. So it was 18. And again, I have all these regrets of frequencies that I didn't use and I just did this big motivating post on Instagram today, but regret nothing and leave it all out there. And but there's only so many frequencies in an hour that you can try. And I'm a scientist. I'm going to go with statistically what should work the fastest, most effectively the first time. But if something tore, if your brain is already going to that mechanism of injury where there is flexion-extension trauma, if it tore, you better believe that it bled.

Kim Pittis:
So I really do think that 18 and 124 have to work together. And the more I'm respecting that process, the better results I'm getting, the faster results. I'm not saying you don't have to. I still had to use 13. It wasn't just done with Torn and Broken, but I think it was Dave Burke that was talking about thinking about you have to remove the blocks like you have to remove. Think of Pacman, right? Like you have to figure out what those little traumas were. Yes. 13 needed to run, but you needed to run the other stuff first for it to really work.

Dr. Carol:
And this is just so exciting to me because that's the learning process for an FSM practitioner. Learning to believe your fingers and believe that the frequencies are doing exactly what they're alleged to do. So if they don't work, it's because that's not what it is. And if that's not what it is, then what is it? So I had an Ehlers-Danlos patient and 124/77 held for months. But she said it made her back pain worse and her back pain was at T-12, L1, L2. Factoid. Random factoid. Ehlers-danlos patients are also famous for having tethered cord and the cord is tethered but the phylum is tethered at T-12, L-1, L-2. She said. I stopped running 124/77 for Ehlers-Danlos because it made my back hurt. And she went like this and I went so treated her shoulder. Got that out of the way. And then let's see what we can do about your back pain. She was set on the table and did two machines. First time I've done this. Note to self one machine on scarring and the cord one machine on scoring in the dura. Had her do rotation first and then side bending. And then flexion. And she flexed at the hip since no, flex here because it was stuck in-between her shoulder blades. And all of a sudden her thoracic spine muscles would contract. She said, I can stack. Actually move. But the clue was and the thing I missed the first week she was with me a couple of months ago. Was she's an Ehlers-Danlos. Just 124 and 77 and done and dusted. And aren't we nifty? I missed the tethered cord, but the tethered cord didn't really show up until two months later. But I listen to when I run Ehlers-Danlos torn or broken and the connective tissue makes my back hurt. What? Make your back hurt. It's got to be the dura. Where does your back hurt? T-12, L-1. And up the base of my skull.

Kim Pittis:
Before we go more on to that, you did something really important with your spine movement. And I'll tell everybody who's listening too. This is another kind of new part that I've emphasized with the Sports Course. When we do that flexion-extension to increase spine mobility, flexion and extension can be a very scary movement. So a lot of the times when I am trying to increase spine mobility, remember the spine just doesn't flex and extends to your point. Its side bends and it rotates. So when we're working with Cord and Dura, getting the pliability, the elasticity, the motion, and again, we don't just have spinal flexion and extension or muscles that just flex and extend. We have muscles that side bend us and rotate us. So to start your range of motion, I will always start with side bending and rotation before I have them flex. It's almost like a little dynamic warm-up because you're safer in these ranges than you are to flex and extend. That's going to light up a set and it's going to light up a disc faster than if you start with rotation and side bending. So if you have a patient that you know their back is going to light up, start with those mobilities first before flexion and extension.

Dr. Carol:
And as far as I know, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, as far as I know, the dura has vertical fibers and rotational fibers.

Kim Pittis:
They do? Absolutely.

Dr. Carol:
And there are little ligaments holding the nerves.

Kim Pittis:
Exactly.

Dr. Carol:
That the dura the foramen so you have to loosening the fibers first.

Kim Pittis:
Correct. Your eyes went all crazy and I know you were reading the chat. So let's go to the questions. So let's go to the easy one first. Rick asks, What time does Phenix FSM Symposium end on Sunday? What time should I book my flight back home? No, stay. Stay for all.

Dr. Carol:
All. Rick. Rick, Have you ever known us to end on time at 6:00? Ever and then.

Kim Pittis:
Fly out on Monday?

Dr. Carol:
Yeah. So fly out on Monday, stay and enjoy the pool and the.

Kim Pittis:
And all that conversation.

Dr. Carol:
That's the good part. And or fix it so we never finish at 6:00 because we have a panel at the end of the day with the best speakers on the planet. That's right. 9:00. I don't know where you live or if you can get out of Phenix at 9:00 at night to go where you want to go.

Minette. Any experience with healing a stoma from a tracheostomy? Client's stoma is still open and waiting for surgery to close.

Dr. Carol:
Surgery is a really good idea. I don't have any milage with that. Open wounds. It wouldn't hurt you to run wound healing. Why would they take out the trachea and not close it on the same freakin day? Excuse me? Never mind.

Kim Pittis:
Derrick's question is the one that made your face so funny. I bet.

Dr. Carol:
Yeah.

Kim Pittis:
Yeah. Derek writes, He only ran the emotional and emotional protocol. Not sure which one it is. Patient. Got a headache and threw up. What happened?

Dr. Carol:
If it was the concussion protocol, Tell me if it was the concussion. Concussion protocol Is the only one that I know of that gives people a headache. 94/94. It's pretty rare, but it has happened where they throw up. And emotion? Was it just emotional, relax and balance or was it a single emotion or is it one you made up? Out of? TTH.

Kim Pittis:
This is all on you. I'm glad you're here right now.

Dr. Carol:
TTH, Tendency To Have bad things happen is the first part of it. At least the way I've rearranged it in the CustomCare mode Bank is the seven frequencies that Ryan Wilson and one of my patients came up with for the energetic tendencies to have bad stuff attracted to you. And then the last half of that protocol is 970's of various sorts. And I've never had it make anybody throw up. So I don't know. Did it look like pea soup? I don't know. I have no idea. It's. Yeah, that's a first.

Kim Pittis:
Interesting.

Dr. Carol:
No. Got nothing. You'd have to know lots of grief. But TTH isn't for grief. It's. I don't know. There's more to that story. I'll tell you about it when we get to Hawaii. There is a point in every seminar where I say out loud to everyone, You guys know that we just make this stuff up, right?

Kim Pittis:
But at the point when you say that people are like, No, you know everything, and I don't believe what you're saying and you're just being humble. There's there is that.

Dr. Carol:
Number one, when you see what the patients have dealt with, with courage and you see and feel what the frequencies do. How could anyone possibly be anything except humble in the face of those two powerful forces? I don't get it. How could anybody in our position be arrogant or full of themselves?

Kim Pittis:
Oh, but there are.

Dr. Carol:
I know I have this system. Where do you get off?

Kim Pittis:
I know.

Dr. Carol:
It's a philosophical discussion. That is, there's a couple more things we have to talk about to today besides besides that quick. We have lots of time. We have 4 minutes. So the gentleman that I keep talking about who came up with METH, we don't do RICE we're using meth. So again, is not methamphetamines. It stands for Movement, Elevation, Traction and Heat. I had a few more emails over the last little while about more information about him. I did interview him. That podcast is now up. His name is John Paul Catanzaro.

Kim Pittis:
He is an exercise physiologist from Canada. He has two websites if you just Google METH and his name, a lot of these studies will come up. But I did want to bring everybody's attention to the two studies that are up right now. One is in the Journal of Applied Physiology, the other one is in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning. So we're getting more and more really good data, large studies that are being done with not just METH, which is the combination of movement, elevation, traction and heat, but just using heat therapy, especially heat therapy and with different types of whole modalities. They're not coming out and saying Microcurrent, but I believe we are in a really good time to start putting together this data because there's a huge shift and people are very resistant to change.

Kim Pittis:
And I do understand that ICE has been the tried and true application for a very long time. I believe it was 1973. Dr. Gabe MIRKIN was the doctor that came up with using ICE, and he put together RICE Rest, Ice Compression, Elevation. We're not immobilizing. If you just look at immobilizing in the last 15, 20 years, we are not casting splinting, bracing nearly as much as what we used to. And why is that? Because there's been really good data to show that our bodies need to move to heal. And you all, as FSM practitioners and the people that are listening to this podcast and watching us on YouTube are hopefully the group because you're looking at different modalities to try and not just getting a brace and not just getting surgery and not just doing all these things because hopefully the end goal is to have you move again. There's data to show that movement is healing, it's bringing blood flow to the area. So all the frequencies that we use, again, especially with torn and broken 49, increasing the vitality, increasing the secretions like this, all supports what this latest research and data is showing us that we need to move. So when I guess you have the inquisitive look on your face.

Dr. Carol:
It makes me think about a sixth machine that could just be running vitality in the blood supply. O. And when you look at the lining of the blood vessels, the lining of the blood vessels secrete a substance that heals the blood vessels. So 81/49 increased secretions and vitality in the arteries.

Kim Pittis:
I'm going to try it.

Dr. Carol:
One machine, right? While you're doing all you're doing.

Kim Pittis:
The other stuff.

Dr. Carol:
Especially on acute injuries. Correct.

Kim Pittis:
See. Look at that. We're changing science just right before your eyes. Look at that. Just me and you and everybody listening. Everybody mark this day down. October 12.

Dr. Carol:
This is start. It starts with questions. Yes, science questions.

Kim Pittis:
It's 4:00. Really quickly. Somebody wrote, Kim, you didn't give a quote last time. So I have the quote here.

Kim Pittis:
We cannot force someone to hear a message they are not ready to receive. But never underestimate the power of planting a seed.

Dr. Carol:
And data shows that people generally have to hear something or see something seven times before they act on it before it produces. Yes, chef. Yes, exactly.

Kim Pittis:
So I'm just going to keep talking about this. Everybody is going to keep changing the world with heat.

Dr. Carol:
And you got it. And with that, I said.

Kim Pittis:
All of it. And you and I.

Dr. Carol:
Do good things. You, too. Enjoy.

Kim Pittis:
See you in a week.

Dr. Carol:
Bye.

Kim Pittis:
Bye, everybody. Thanks for coming.

Kevin:
The Frequency Specific Microcurrent podcast has been produced by Frequency Specific Seminars for entertainment, educational and information purposes only. The information opinion provided in the podcast are not medical advice. Do not create any type of doctor-patient relationship and, unless expressly stated, do not reflect the opinions of its affiliates, subsidiaries or sponsors, or the hosts or any of the podcast guests or affiliated professional organizations. No person should act or refrain from acting on the basis of the content provided in any podcast without first seeking appropriate medical advice and counseling. No information provided in any podcast should be used as a substitute for personalized medical advice and counseling. Fcc expressly disclaims any and all liability relating to any actions taken or not taken based on or any contents of this podcast.

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