Episode Fifty-Three – David Burke And Ben Katholi

Episode Fifty-Three - David Burke And Ben Katholi

Kim Pittis, LCSP, (PHYS), MT David Burke, DO
Ben Katholi, MD

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Episode 53: Video automatically transcribed by Sonix

Episode 53: this mp4 video file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Kim Pittis:
Thank you again so much. And you guys, this time is really important. The feedback that we got when I had you guys on individually was huge. It was some of our best viewed and listen to podcasts.

David Burke:
So it's going to be horrible when we're together in the same building. I know it's going to be even worse.

Kim Pittis:
The internet might break. We might just shut down, Zoom all together. So I'm going to pose some questions and then it'll be like a game show. You'll have to ring in to answer. I'm just kidding. You'll just answer as you wish to answer. But if I can get you guys both to re-introduce yourselves to people who may not know the awesomeness that you both are, and so we can get a little background of what your practices may be include, and then we're going to navigate from there.

Ben Katholi:
All right. Go ahead, Dave.

David Burke:
So if I say anything inappropriate, it's Ben Katholi. No. I'm Dave Burke. I'm a pediatrician at Cleveland Clinic and also a professor of primary care at Ohio University Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine. Dr. Katholi introduced me to FSM, what is about eight or nine years ago now Ben? We opened up a pediatric integrative medicine center at Cleveland Clinic and have done some really cool things with it and it's really been life-altering for us and a lot of our patients. And we've been blessed to work with Kim through some of the seminars and see some of her work and incorporate some of that too. And the three of us have actually gotten to be pretty good buddies by using FSM and joining our energies with Carol and the rest of you. And we are very happy to be here again.

Kim Pittis:
What? And that wraps up the podcast. Thanks, everybody.

David Burke:
Thanks.

Kim Pittis:
Perfect. When Carol said, wait a minute, you guys are, you're going to have Ben and Dave on at the same time. And I said, yes. Are you going to be able to get any sort of podcast done if that happens? Yeah, we're just going to see what happens. We're all friends here.

David Burke:
This may not happen again. Like Haley's Comet.

Kim Pittis:
Ben, what do you have to add to this? Can you talk about your practice?

Ben Katholi:
Yes, Ben Katholi. I was at Cleveland Clinic with Dave. I'm now at Shirley Ryan in Chicago, which is a rehab hospital here. And my background is pediatric rehab. And I do as part of my practice, some integrative medicine as well. My, probably a big focus, is I have a big population of kids with a variety of developmental disabilities. Cerebral palsy, brachial plexus injuries, and that sort of thing. And I also work in pediatric chronic pain as well, and so do a variety of inpatient rehab, outpatient work, and some specialty clinics, but still get to do the FSM, which is a blessing.

Kim Pittis:
And I think you're always going to go down, your claim to fame as the practitioner that used the most machines at one time. I was telling Carol after I had talked to you. I said, you know, that he doesn't do that often anymore? And she was like, oh, well that's the fun in that?

Ben Katholi:
And they say that, yeah. I mean, we still use multiple units, but I know that for I think for my current practice it's been more trying to figure out what approaches work best. And so it's less about, not that we don't do that, but just trying to feel out what's going to be the most effective, especially for different movements or different symptoms that we're working on. But sometimes you still need a whole bunch of units. But maybe I haven't done quite as many as we did before.

Kim Pittis:
Sometimes you just have to. If you get a really complicated patient and if I have four of them sitting around, I'm like, okay, I've got 2 hours. I know this needs to be on. So there's one machine. I know this has to run, so there's another machine. And so there definitely is a time when you need all the machines and all the wires and all the leads and all the stickies and all the things. I'm going to back up the train right in the beginning. And I'll have you both talk about what your favorite frequencies are right now that you're using. I know that most of us, especially those of us, have been using it for a while. Like for me, I always have the, it's like the frequency of the year, the one that like I've really highlighted or I've got a lot of mileage with. Let's talk about some A channels because I think those are the ones are the most variable. We talked a little bit, Ben, last time with 94 and 321 and thank you for reintroducing that in my brain because sometimes you get really mechanical and you go through the motions and you go, okay, I know I need to run this, and you drive by the other ones really quickly. I've really sat with 321 and 94 and 294 a little bit more and I'll talk about my stuff later. But Dave, why don't we start with you? What are you or is there a condition that you're treating a lot of? And then there is.

David Burke:
Recently I've been getting more spasticity. Actually Ben and I just gave a conference at Cleveland Clinic for the Spasticity Clinic. And so with spasticity I like to use 81/10, increase secretions of the spinal cord from head to toe. I also will sometimes use 81/396 from either the base of the neck to the hands or the lumbar spine to the feet, just to increase secretions of the nerves to help calm things down. Just last week, I had the opportunity to treat a young lady who had complex regional pain syndrome, which she had had for four years and had gotten referred to me by another one of our colleagues, Dr. Ellen Rosenquist, who is a pediatric pain management specialist. And we were able to totally take her pain away from a seven out of ten to a zero out of ten and 35 minutes.

Kim Pittis:
Wow.

David Burke:
Coming back in on Friday. But so we were able to use 43/96 from low back to feet. And I treated 40/10 from neck to feet and also ran concussion on her. And I ran some depression anxiety on her just because of all of the things that she had to give up during that length of time. And she was absolutely blown away. Today I treated a father of one of my patients. I don't usually see a ton of adults, but this is a guy who's pushing 50 years, a former Marine. And I always have a place in my heart for veterans. And he had some nerve damage. He had compressed his brachial plexus from wearing a really tight backpack when he was doing some training 20 years ago. And has had chronic pain and limited range of motion. And so I was channeling my friend Kim Pittis and ran 40 and 396 from neck to hand and I ran scar tissue of the nerves while doing some range of motion and some facial distortion techniques, which I am going to shamelessly put a plug in for. There's a conference coming up at Cleveland Clinic October 15th and 16th for the facial distortion model for anyone who's interested from academy dot org and took his pain away completely and he was kept doing his range of motion with his arms and he's like, I can't do this as he's doing it with no pain. And his eyes were about the size of saucers. And it was amazing to be able to help one of our veterans who helped us. So that was one of my most rewarding things.

Kim Pittis:
Fantastic, and thanks for walking us through the ways you were treating them. And sometimes I think we can get super complicated and we're really searching for investigational frequencies or something. That's really outrageous. And I think we need to start with I typically will always start with statistically what I think will work the best and 40 and ten and 40 and three, 96. I think especially when you have pain, you don't have to go searching necessarily for the cause of pain. I try to always teach that in the sports course. Yes, maybe it's caused by something way outside your scope of practice or maybe it's caused by something that you really have to do a lot of detective work to find. But pain is pain. And your number one goal is to get your patient, to get that pain, to drop that first treatment, or there won't be a treatment number two to try to figure out what it's caused from. So thanks for reminding us about 40 and ten and 43, 96, Ben, what can you add to this?

Ben Katholi:
So I think last time we talked a lot about treatment of kind of neurologic disorders and you mentioned 94 and 321 and 49. And I think since the last podcast, it's been a lot of nine seventies. It's the season, but a lot of I've been using a lot of nine seventies with benefit. And I would say the other thing is just. I know Carol talks a lot about vagal nerve dysfunction and kind of seeing a lot of interesting results with that, seeing a lot of odd viral reactions affecting not even COVID, but kind of other infections or things. We had a patient with really severe tonsillitis and then developed some this and a lot of GI symptoms related to I don't know whether it was antibiotics, but a lot of vagal nerve issues. And so we ended up treating bacterial frequencies and viral frequencies in the Vagus and that really improves symptoms significantly, I think. Continue to be amazed at what Vegas can do in both kind of jai symptomatology, but also in the growing evidence for it in use of kind of neuroplasticity. Some really neat articles coming out about verb stem and how that can affect motor recovery in different types of central nervous system injuries. So that's been I don't remember when our last podcast was, but that's been the big focus the last month or two is that I'm remembering anyway, that would be something different from what we talked about last time.

Kim Pittis:
I'm going to go back. So some of our some of the people that listen don't know the numbers often because they're just laypeople. So the 1970s are bank for the emotional or the emotions. And so when we think about the 1970s on our channel, are you using them as it's written in the laminate, what how they're applied to with the B channel? Or are you using it in the tissue that you're trying to affect?

Ben Katholi:
So two things. Since I do some acupuncture sometimes if I'm spotting what I looks like, kind of meridian dysfunction through a whole part of the body, I think 970 and that specific channel for that organ can be really helpful, but I also do it in specific tissues to treating as we usually would with 40 and three, 96 and other approaches. But then 970 and those tissues as well.

Kim Pittis:
What about what about you, Dave? Nine seventies. How do you use them?

David Burke:
I a lot of times we'll do it depends on what I'm treating. If I have somebody like this. Another machine that I was working on a couple of weeks ago had some trauma to his abdomen from a motor vehicle accident when he was in the military. And so I was treating his general anxiety and depression, which he had had a longstanding history of, as well as PTSD. But I had some extra units, so I got out my PrecisionCare and put in 970 and I started treating the fascia, the connective tissue, things like that, and really got a pretty good smosh. And this is a guy who had bilateral hernia surgery and an appendectomy because of his lower abdominal pain, which didn't take care of his pain because that wasn't the cause of his pain. His pain was from his accident and it wasn't until I started doing body work on him and releasing some partial distortion restrictions and running Microcurrent that he was able to recall the the injury, which was really cool because I was working on him and I just saw his face light up and he said, Did something happen? And I said, Well, I just felt the tissue release. And he goes, We just had a I just had a flashback of my car accident, which I had forgotten about. And so when we were able to release that energy that was stored in that tissue for, what, 20, 30 years now, I felt the release.

David Burke:
I felt it as a tissue release. He felt it as an emotional release. And his pain was gone at the end of that period of time. Yeah, I treated his anxiety and he's actually interestingly, he's coming back in on Friday with his daughter, who I think I presented before for chronic rib pain that had seen four different specialists. And we were able to fix that with Microcurrent and manipulations as well. Yeah. So when you put your hands on the patient and you're and you have that connection and you feel like a huge release more than what you're expecting, those are a lot of times there's an emotional component with that. And it's interesting to sometimes ask the patient, What are you feeling? Because they may be reliving something that they've been through, especially kids who have been through trauma or PTSD or veterans or surgical issues or divorce, rape or whatever. So watch your patients faces if you get a reaction that you think is more generous than you were anticipating, because there's a lot of times there's a really cool story behind that can be very life altering for the patient when you can help them work through things that have been stored up in their body for 20 or 30 years.

Kim Pittis:
That's a very important point I want to talk about for a second, because I talked about this a few podcasts ago with I think it was with Carol. I'm starting to forget who I'm telling all my stories to. But I was in college and we did a ton of outreach to get volunteer hours in. And when you're doing manual therapy, as many bodies as you can treat the better. And we were volunteering and I had treated we were doing a lot of anterior neck work and we were warned about the longest colli and one of our teachers was calling it the sobbing muscle. So to be careful when you are releasing longest coli and sure enough here I was young Kim in college doing some very great anterior neck manipulation and the patient shot up and screamed, I was raped and I had no idea what to do or what to say. And that patient was freaked out because it was like she wasn't prepared to blurt that out. So that's an extreme case of putting your hands on somebody and having somebody release something like that. But I think we see a lot of it with FSM and it sneaks up on us really slowly as so many times. You'll have patients that start telling you stories and about injuries and they don't even realize that they're giving you so much information on how to help their case because they just start relaxing and they start talking. And to your point, I'm not sure what is it that starts unlocking the memory of old injuries?

David Burke:
Yeah, etc.. I really think it's the connection, the energetic connection that you make when you put your hands on patients and you are able to help relieve their pain. And it's never been a negative experience for me. It's always been a positive. I've had so many people say I've never told anyone that I was date raped in college. My husband doesn't know, my therapist doesn't know. You're the only one that I've told. And then we can. Fortunately, I'm a physician. It can help them navigate, hopefully, but get them into therapy and get them to work through some of these longstanding issues. And it's amazing how many patients with fibromyalgia, chronic headaches, chronic fatigue have had negative physical or emotional things going on in their life that they don't even remember what happened or have suppressed it to the point where they never made the connection. And when you can talk about how energy works and she and energy flow and Reiki and all of that, something magical happens. And I don't know, actually, Dr. Hathaway just sent me a book yesterday that I started reading by Neil Nathan, who is another big Microcurrent proponent and national speaker. And I'm only on the second chapter and I'm already blown away and my head is expanding as his words come to me. So it's fascinating to help. I don't know how it works, but it does.

Ben Katholi:
That book is really interesting. A patient of mine gave it to me and I felt motivated to share it with Dave.

Kim Pittis:
Neil is going to be at the Advanced in our next Advanced, so I don't know where all these awesome people it's going to be like a two month long advance with all the speakers that she's talking about coming. We're going to have to go all night long, I think, because I don't know how she's going to get everybody in. Do you have anything to add with the emotional frequencies, Ben?

Ben Katholi:
No, I'm not sure I could do it better justice than Dave. David, I think I think there's a lot of manual practitioners that experience these releases, whether you're an llmt or a cranial sacral therapist or whatever. Hands on modality that you're applying that. And I hadn't really experienced it until during acupuncture training. We saw some kind of emotional releases from people, and I wasn't prepared for it because that wasn't something that I ran across in my training. And I think seeing more of it with FSM, I've come to have a healthier respect for it and understanding and also looking for it. But it's I agree, it's it's I think it's part of the healing process. And so it's something that is. Maybe not everybody needs it, but I think we all have emotions related to whatever symptoms we're dealing with. And.

Kim Pittis:
For sure. One of the one of the cases that I presented years ago was I'll be the first to admit I didn't use the 1970s for probably the first two years I practiced with FS and I didn't use them. I thought that part was weird in the course. I wanted scar tissue, I wanted range of motion, I wanted bone healing, I wanted all that stuff. I was working with really tough athletes, so I admittedly I checked out when we started hearing about that. And then I was working with a professional hockey player who had a huge contusion on his glute from two two freak falls during a game. Broken blood vessels. Nerve, nerve damage. And I was. On treatment, I think three or four. I had got almost all the range of motion, pretty close to symmetrical. All the inflammation was going down, but I was trying to get more hip flexion. So as glute was being really restricted and he supine on the table and I'm trying to get his hip to move and it's it's not going anywhere. Everything that I punched in the PrecisionCare was useless. I was super frustrated. And then the patient starts talking to me, really talking like I'm so frustrated with this injury.

Kim Pittis:
I'm like, Yeah, me too, man. I'm frustrated. Like, I'm in. No, and I'm scared. Like, what if I lose my spot in the lineup? I'm like, Whatever. I'm trying to get your glute to move. And then I'm like thinking, Oh, he's giving me the answers right now. He's frustrated, he's scared. We have frequencies for these. So I thought, why not test this objectively? Ran the nine seventies and wouldn't know what passive hip flexion starts gaining more and more. And I was like, Oh, they worked. So I think to your point, the patient starts telling you things and Dave, you just said it to he said, This is the first time I've been able to open up to anybody to talk about how scared I am with this injury. And there is that huge connection there. And so I don't know if it's the frequencies that, like you said, remove that blockage or them just saying it out loud helps that deep sigh that your patients take on the table. Sometimes you're like, okay, this is starting to work.

David Burke:
It's so funny though, because how often when you're working on someone and you feel stuck that the patient tells you the answer? Yes, they just say something. It's just I just feel like this needs to be reset. Like, Oh, you mean like 321 or.

Ben Katholi:
It feels like a deep.

David Burke:
Old bruise issue. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, you're exactly right. Your body. And I'm not listening to you know.

Kim Pittis:
I know my father used to always say, you have two ears in one mouth for a reason, and I didn't really get it as a kid, but now I'm like, okay, listen, so the questions are keep popping up, but I want to get to one before we get too far off off topic that was sent a little while ago to you, Ben. Like I had everything right here ready to go. And of course.

Ben Katholi:
From prior or today, I was just pulling.

Kim Pittis:
Up. This is from a couple. This is from a couple of days ago.

Ben Katholi:
Oh.

Kim Pittis:
They had emailed it to me, so it was about 49. So this is a follow up to when you and I were talking, because we talked a lot about 49, which I have always loved, 49, more than 81. So I was really happy to hear. So it's always nice when you hear other practitioners that are also liking the same frequencies as you and also discounting the ones that you don't like. There's that validation there. The question says, I've been using the 49 frequency with some results like 49, three, 96, 49, 610 in addition to some other sequences for specific pathologies regarding running 40 and ten, I have been following it with 81 and ten for a few minutes. Under that conditions, might 49 and ten be used in place of 81 and ten, or in addition to 81 and ten? Have you an experience using 49 and ten? If so, has it worked?

Ben Katholi:
So I think I tend to combine the two.

Kim Pittis:
Like 49 and 81.

Ben Katholi:
Yeah, I'll do both. I feel like 81. And when we talk about kind of cord sensitization and that indication like Carol always talks about with Palmer sensitivity and cord vein and sensitivity up and down the back, that is very classic for 4010 and that classic indication for 8110 of like spasticity or very vocal muscle spasms. And at 49, I do, but I don't have the same indication, but I definitely do because I feel like it's supportive and I feel like when I run it, I get a little longer benefit in general, but I don't have the same like clear cut. Here's when I have to use it. I do try to use both, but I don't have to pick one over the other. I don't know about, you.

David Burke:
Know, I don't pick one. I run 8110 more often, but a lot of times I do finish up with vitality for a few minutes and. You had actually mentioned a couple of months ago when we were having a conversation with Carol about how both of you had been running more vitality channels with for longer periods of time. And like you both, I have found that vitality I think also is probably a time related or time dependent channel. And so instead of running it for one or 2 minutes like I typically did, I've now been running it for longer periods of time. As long as I start noticing the patient kind of starting to get a little foggy after three or 4 minutes. And so I've been doing a lot more with vitality, which I never that was my 970 for you, Uk.m I hardly ever used vitality until a couple of months ago, other than maybe for a minute or two at the end of most of my protocol. So I've been doing a lot more with vitality. So I don't know that I have a whole lot to offer because I'm still been playing around with that recently, but I have a feeling I'm going to be using more of it in the future.

Kim Pittis:
I've had a ton of success with 49 postoperatively and I think it's been it's been a game changer to use my FSM sports tagline and I agree I think it's time dependent. I used to always throw it on the CustomCare between two and 4 minutes and now I've been putting it on for at least 30 minutes, if not hours for post-op, not acutely post-op, maybe one month out for sure. I'm going to get to some of the questions that are on here live because I have a feeling they're just going to keep coming and coming. Someone said, I love the 49 since 1992. Susan, you are ahead of the curve here. Thanks for adding that and making me feel sad that I haven't paid attention to it more. It's one of those loops. Can you keep naming the frequencies? It helps understanding the treatment? Yes. We'll start using the words also besides the numbers that that helps us. So one of the questions comes from Minette says, Good day, everybody. So excited that Dr. Weatherly and Dr. Burke are here. So am I. Minute I have a 22 month old kiddo who has a right cerebral hemorrhage when he was born. History of seizure still on meds and apnea. He's currently delayed with his milestones and left UEE and weakness. His muscle tone started to get better, but not enough to provide stability and standing and ability to use. Left you for play. I just got a green light from neurologists to use from yesterday. I'm excited and nervous at the same time. Recommendations and what frequency to start.

Ben Katholi:
And I guess the question from Annette is this a kid with spastic hemiplegia or is he more kind of low tone at that point? Because I think that would help determine what we'd be targeting. I think one thing that we use is.

Kim Pittis:
Like I'm going to look for the third point she wrote. She wrote for my spastic quadriplegic, kiddo, I'm not sure if it's the same person.

Ben Katholi:
Maybe a different it looks like it may be a different.

Kim Pittis:
Age.

Ben Katholi:
So if it's spastic.

Kim Pittis:
I wrote low tone.

Ben Katholi:
Oh, look, tone. Never mind. All right. Because definitely we at least from my standpoint, I treat the kids with spasticity very differently than the low muscle tone kids. And I think for the low muscle tone kids targeting I start outside and work and so we'll target kind of. 49 and the nerve 396 and then we'll treat the cord and then we'll treat the motor cortex or the cerebellum. And Dave, I don't know if you differentiate from that, but versus the spastic kids, actually, one of the OTS that we worked with in Cleveland, Jesse Stricker, figured out running neuroma and FTP together. Both those programs seem to really affect muscle tone and also sensation to the affected limb, meaning the kids that were old enough to tell us said that they felt more symmetric sensation between the two limbs for an extended period which was super interesting, which then helped them have better use of it in therapy because they had a better sense of themselves in space. Dave Do you have anything to add for.

David Burke:
Kind of so just kind of reading through their vignette, I have had really interesting results when I saw you had mentioned there was a brain hemorrhage. So I've had really interesting success with treating stop the bleeding of that part of the brain.

Kim Pittis:
So 18.

David Burke:
18 and 90, if this was frontal lobe for this patient or if it's cerebellum, 84, 94, even though the bleed was years ago, I've had really neat responses in my patients who have had former brain bleeds and then also treat scar tissue of that area because that bleed had to go somewhere and it's typically into scar tissue. So treat that and then also remember treat the scarring of the dura. And a lot of times that can have a pretty profound effect, especially if that scar tissue is causing some nerve impingement. Because if your spinal fluid is impinged from scar tissue, then the dura a lot of times will help release that.

Kim Pittis:
Really interesting point. I want to make sure that we heard correctly because I think a lot of us, me included, would always use 18 and just those acute conditions. And one way that I'm trying to teach this again is if the possibility existed for that area to bleed, use 18, right? If it once bleed. And I find that can be really useful when you know something is scarred and you're running all the scarring frequencies and you aren't getting anywhere to go back and try 18 again. So really helpful tip Dave. Thank you.

David Burke:
Yeah. So sometimes treat it like an onion you're peeling back level. So sometimes you have to go to the very first level of the injury even though it may have been years ago. So you can get so far for one appointment, but I lost the patients with chronic issues. This is a marathon, not a sprint. So we can we're taking a little bit off at a time. It's going to take some time to get through the Sol. And I don't want to overwhelm the patient. So we're like, we're better. Let's see you back in a week or a couple of days or whatever your schedule permits, or if you have somebody else that works with you, maybe they can come back and see your assistant and they can give them a set of frequencies to run in the meantime, before you see them again.

Kim Pittis:
Excellent. Monette asks for autism and autism spectrum. The patients that she sees are usually nonverbal, high sensory issues between sensitivity and seeker low muscle tone globally. Aside from using concussion protocol, any recommendations in those cases?

David Burke:
So autism is tricky. I know that after my even my last podcast, several people sent me their autism protocols that they've been working on, too. So there's a lot of different ways to go about treating autism, whether it be herbal things, homeopathic things, nutrition, treating different parts of the liver, the adrenal cortex, things like that. I adopted mine from Carol's neurodegenerative protocol, which was, I think initially made for Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, and it's part of the core. But I adapted that into my autism protocol, which we refer to as neuro conditions too, which is in several of my ADHD talks, I believe, from a couple of years ago. That should be on the some of the advanced former slides. And I also treat I treat them for ADHD, which I do have a 22 minute protocol I think also in her slides and then treat the emotional component of either relax and balance or depression or anxiety. So I typically we'll run three different machines on them. I have these programed into CustomCare's. If you can't find those protocols, reach out to me and I can get them to you.

Kim Pittis:
I have nothing to add. I'm going to keep going down with minute minute. Your questions are great for spastic quadriplegia. Cp With poor muscle tone to trunk muscles used a combination of 40, 49 and ten, 40, 49, 396 to improve the rigidity to lean some to left. You see, the 81 seemed to make the rigidity worse. I use concussion protocol with Vagus, which helped my 30 month toddler deal with constant illness. He recently was able to sit with minimal support for 20 minutes and able to stand one placed against a wall wall without collapsing any frequency, combination, recommendations or protocols to better improve is overall development.

David Burke:
Is that addressed to? I think Ben should go with that one first.

Ben Katholi:
So I think that when we see kids with cerebral palsy and they have high muscle tone, I think we have to look at them all a little bit differently. And sometimes definitely there's stuff that I think will be a slam dunk and is totally the opposite reaction. And this is a good example of one where Annette tried 81 and it seemed to make the tone worse, but 49 help. I think that it helps emphasize the fact that there's a difference between those 80, 81 and 49 in terms of the effects on the spinal cord. But I think trying to remember and cerebral palsy that there's that map or in any kind of injury to the central nervous system, there's that map called the homunculus. And what is impacted and close to the midline is more the legs. And then the next step out in kind of the brain is the arms. And then the face is the lowest down aspect. And based on the description, I'm guessing that there's a stronger effect in the more medial parts of the homunculus. And so one thing that we've played around with aside from this is targeting some of those other motor cortex frequencies that are on the advanced. And we get asked often like which one is which? And I'm frankly still figuring that out.

Ben Katholi:
I think I have some ideas, but still for consistent responses, I do try them all, but I haven't decided which one I think is related to which part of the homunculus. But I do treat the basics on those. Do we have? I still love Dave's protocol. The neuro too. I think that can be really helpful also. But I guess the bigger question is, are you trying to treat the tone or do you want to treat activation? And sometimes trying to help activate the muscles helps their body relax those muscles because you're getting better activation of the motor pathways. So sometimes if we're too focused on treating the positive symptoms like spasms or rigidity or dystonia, if we take a different tact and try to treat kind of motor pathways or motor activation, sometimes I get a better response with that, but that's my sort of thought. On why the 81 versus the 49. And again, I've been playing with both of those in the central nervous system and I like this comment about the use of the Vagus. I thought that was really cool to Dave. I don't know if you have any other any things to add for that 30 month toddler.

David Burke:
The other thing is the basal ganglia frequencies. So running the basics with 988, which is for basal ganglia and then 40 for inflammation and 81 to increase secretions. I've had good luck with that. And again, treating the scarring of the dura. And then also look for any kind of if you're somebody who does manual work, any kind of strain patterns, vertical vectors or folding unfolding, if you're somebody who does spatial distortion model and if you aren't, then that might be something that you might want to look into or refer to a or chiropractor or or that's been trained in that. And if I left any of the specialties out, I apologize. Sometimes for some can only get you so far if there's some sort of a mechanical restriction. Don't forget to treat the physical part of the restrictions as well.

Kim Pittis:
Good that you can chime in if there's any more things that we missed here. Summer had asked two questions, please. Any suggestions for autoimmune vasculitis and hyper inflated lungs? Oh. We're just like we're swinging for the fences today, aren't we? Really good ones. You guys go.

Ben Katholi:
I'll let Dave take the vasculitis ones. I think the hyper inflated lungs we've seen. So I. See a lot of hyperinflation, injuries or ventilatory issues on our inpatient patients who require ventilatory support. And I think looking at is this and I'm not sure some are what type of population you're working with, but we see some hyperinflation with obviously we work in Pedes, so I don't see COPD or that kind of hyperinflation that we see with obstructive disease. And so I see a lot of diaphragmatic dysfunction or spasms or. Diaphragmatic hemi paralysis or a variety of things. So I worked with a speech therapist who had a big focus on diaphragmatic dysfunction, and we'd been working on some protocols for that, and that's had really interesting results. Treating the nerve and the diaphragm, which is interesting. The diaphragm is 84, so it's a shared frequency with the cerebellum, which I find.

Kim Pittis:
Fascinating.

Ben Katholi:
And it all fits together and makes sense. On why both your breathing and your kind of coordination improves together. So I'm not sure if, but that's one approach I've had for the hyperinflation, but I don't know if some are if your population is more kind of adults and more like true respiratory disease and that I have less experience with.

Kim Pittis:
Dave, anything to add with that?

David Burke:
I don't have a ton of experience treating lungs. Again, pediatrician. I do have kids with cystic fibrosis and I've treated several adult patients with coronavirus post scarring and things like that, one of whom was a police officer in town who ended up on chemo, which is heart lung bypass for several months and had a lot of scar tissue. And fortunately, he had a CAT scan, which I was able to pull up the radiology report and based on their translation of what was going on with his lungs, it's like we have frequencies for fibrosis, we have frequencies for scar tissue. And so I was able to plug in the numbers for fibrosis, for scarring, of the bronchioles, of the alveoli, of the lungs, also treat the diaphragm. And we have frequencies in the advanced four C, four, five, cervical three for five nerves which innervate the diaphragm. So you can treat those and also the Vagus as well. I had good results with those and obviously if you're having hyperinflation, is there something mechanical also going on with the rib cage in the diaphragm that you can maybe work on, maybe do some rib raising techniques or myofascial release to that area? Diaphragm release, things like that can all be beneficial.

Kim Pittis:
Excellent. Yeah. Then I have to just touch on the 84 is the diaphragm and the cerebellum because I do a lot of diaphragm release rib work. And when I first started, I remember thinking what we have what's what's diaphragm again? I checked on the buddy. I'm like, No, that can't be right because that's the cerebellum. And then you have that moment, you're like, it's the same frequency for a reason.

Ben Katholi:
Yeah.

Kim Pittis:
Oh, that's funny. Yeah, I remember that, that treatment specifically, it's very interesting. And you're right, there is something about breath and movement that is just innately connected. I'm having a ton of fun with the two of that summer road. Again, it's me. I just found out two days ago in the E.R. that my lungs were hyper inflated.

Ben Katholi:
Oh, no.

Kim Pittis:
Okay. So it's summer. And then she also discovered the autoimmune vasculitis in the past week. So Summer, this is about you. Okay. I'm going to go back up here. Marla asked, has dystonia been addressed with FSM?

Ben Katholi:
They've has.

Kim Pittis:
Oh, Dave, I think you're muted.

David Burke:
Sorry. My dog was barking, so I put myself on mute. The patient that I was telling, I think the last podcast I mentioned, a girl named Maria who we presented actually Keith Phillip presented at the International Symposium a couple of years ago and I was looking through her MRI report. I saw that she had a brain bleed to the basal ganglia and she had just tonic to the point where they had to physically restrain her because she was just getting so banged up. And when we ran the frequencies for bleeding into the basal ganglia and inflammation of the basal ganglia, her arms just she was going from this to her arms just dropped and she looked stoned. And so I've run that on quite a few of my kids with this tonic CGRP and it's been amazing. So don't forget to treat the basal ganglia for that one. The autoimmune question Vagus various frequencies for that. And then you need an anti-inflammatory diet because you need to figure out what's causing this reaction.

Kim Pittis:
All right. I'm going to shut the questions down soon. Just kidding. Louise asked, Do you use either of the frequencies for teach one and teach two with autoimmune?

David Burke:
I have not.

Kim Pittis:
Okay. I have nothing to add. Ben.

Ben Katholi:
No, I don't. Yeah.

Kim Pittis:
Okay. Okay. And then, Alvaro, you mentioned the frequency for phrenic nerve. I'm not sure who that was for. Did we talk about that?

Ben Katholi:
I think I think we were talking about diaphragm. And so at least as far as I'm aware, we don't have a specific phrenic phrenic nerve. Frequency. And so we do, like Dave mentioned, the three, four or five nerve roots which support the diaphragm. That's the kind of innovation. And so that's typically how we go about it, treat the nerve routes plus the nerve, plus the diaphragm. And that tends to be beneficial a lot of 321 for it.

Kim Pittis:
321 I was just going to say on a when we're doing a lot of see that's when you start you put netters Carol came down here a couple of weeks ago for me to work on her shoulder and it was so funny. I'm like, I just need to get netters. And I was putting it on my little trolley. She just put it on my stomach for crying out loud. So whenever I'm treating diaphragm I love to have netters has a really great picture. I almost always have it open because I need to get a visual of what I'm doing, where I'm accessing it. And yet each nerve doesn't have its own frequency. But again, like going back to basics, is it scarred in there is something folded over on itself. There's so much adipose there, so a lot of other add ons that you can run, especially with the diaphragm. And then when we're using 13 especially, 13 loves to be mobilized, even getting people to just do Breathwork while you're you don't have to be really specifically trained in visceral manipulation to just have them do a lot of deep breathing with that exhale to get things to compress and expand is wonderful. So there's that question. I got another question that was emailed in and we'll see if you guys want to talk about this one. It's the TTH protocol, and this one always gets a lot of questions when we teach the teach it and then with patients and what is it and when do I use it? And I think so many of us have different interpretations of TTH and when to use it. So I'd like for you guys to start with that one. Dave, why don't you start with TTH?

David Burke:
So I played around with this a lot when I wrapped up the first classes because everybody has I've got this and I've got this and I've got this. So I tend to run the TTH when I have patients who have multiple diagnoses or they have multiple. Injuries or. I just got over this concussion and then I tripped and then I broke my arm. And then my mother in law just moved into the house and my dog died. And they are just they tend to have a lot of stuff happen to them. And how much of this is coincidence versus how much of this is your bad juju that just needs to energetically be corrected? So that's when I play around with it. I've had some pretty decent results with it sometimes and just watch the face glaze over. The patient will be like, That's interesting. I haven't had anything earth shattering with it, but it's always fun to play, especially after you listen to Carol Talk. I always revisit that after I attend one of her core seminars and because I have not had anything profound, but I'm still waiting for it to happen. It's going to happen one of these days. I know it.

Kim Pittis:
Dave, what do you have to add? Or three have been similar.

Ben Katholi:
I think it varies and I'll go through periods of months where I'm not using it at all and then I'll have. A couple of patients that I'm adding it in multiple times for them, but I don't have the same energetic talents Dave does. Still feeling it out, but I agree. I go a lot on kind of what Carol described, and always I think with all of these protocols and frequencies, there's this kind of continued re understanding of how they're used and how we treat them. And I think that I think as people start to get creative with these, we'll find other uses for it or understandings of it that are a similar use to Dave.

Kim Pittis:
Agreed. Louise. What is TTH? I think it's just translated to tendency to heel, but it's actually the opposite. It's like the resistance of healing or what's it also called, like energetic spiders and snakes. Carol tells this very colorful story of. Stuff happening when somebody was on the table is energetic thing. She had a clairvoyant, I think, working with her at the clinic who could see energetic shifting. And Carol was freaked out that whatever was leaving, the person was somehow in the room and to make sure that it left. So again, a lot of different interpretations. I think for anybody objectively, though, trying to figure out like, when do I run this? It's that history that you're just like, holy cow. All that happened to you and your. In the last year or two. So things like that. I'm not sure how it works, but I do just sometimes if I have an extra CustomCare laying around and that patient tells that story or you're just like, Holy cow, no harm in running that, I tend to run it when I'm like dropping things all the time. If I'm not getting great parking spaces anymore, stuff like that, I'm just like, something is clearly off. I need to run. I never run it for pain. I don't run it for anything other than there's just some good hitting the mute that was quick to quit barking. Kevin will edit the barking, but I agree. I don't know if there's anything more objective that we know about TTH. And whenever I go to the advanced meetings, I always tend to ask people about it and some people have really great stories about it.

Kim Pittis:
But other than other than that, the only time I've ran it was there's one actually frequency pair and I don't remember what it is taken from the TTH protocol and it is just resistance to heal. And we had a patient that nothing worked. She was really she was a practitioner in the sports course and she didn't feel smush and she didn't get pain reduction. And it was everything that we tried nothing. It was like the equivalent of the toddler, just like crossing her arms. And this isn't working. And so I had ran that one pair and it was like instant closed your eyes, calm stone. What was that? I'm like, I don't know. It was just that one pair that jumped out at me and it was resistance to healing. So sometimes I think it can be used in that case. No, I'm sorry. We can't make this to hours. We will have them both back with Carol. And then maybe we can make like a big a big, long one. Yes. Tendency to have sorry, tendency to have not tendency to heal. Tendency to have. And the sentence can go on from there. What else? Oh, Michelle wrote regarding the autoimmune encephalitis, consider running infections like Lyme and co infections and mold specifically causes autoimmune encephalitis a.k.a brain on fire. Yes, we have such a wealth of information that comes at us all the time.

David Burke:
So that was the question on Neil Nathan book.

Kim Pittis:
Oh, yes.

David Burke:
Does that show up?

Kim Pittis:
Nope.

David Burke:
It's called Energetic Diagnosis.

Kim Pittis:
Oh, yes. I have that book.

David Burke:
I don't know why that's not.

Kim Pittis:
I think because you're about there it.

David Burke:
Is my.

Kim Pittis:
Background. Yeah. If you blur your background, then we can see bookshelves.

David Burke:
Oh, they're not pretty. They are not good. I don't know how to do that.

Kim Pittis:
That's okay. If you bring it up again, like close to your face again and back it up just a little bit. Nope.

Ben Katholi:
Your hands are not hilarious.

David Burke:
See if I can find energetic diagnostics.

Kim Pittis:
Yes. Energy diagnosis, I think. Right by Neil Nathan.

David Burke:
Energetic diagnosis by Neil Nathan M.D..

Kim Pittis:
There it is.

David Burke:
Another really good.

Kim Pittis:
Book. It's like book club.

David Burke:
Is Jim Oshmans Energy Medicine. Yes, which is what I had. But there are parts of it that are fascinating. And if you ever get a chance to hear him speak or watch any of his videos, he's amazing.

Kim Pittis:
Yes, he is. I have a picture with him from an advanced a couple of years ago. And my kids are like, who's that? I'm like, Oh, he's like this amazing scientist. Like, I'm such a nerd. Like, no, you're trying to think he's some sort of retired rock star or something. I'm like, He is in my world because your.

David Burke:
World is.

Kim Pittis:
When he speaks. It is amazing. While we're talking about books, I wanted to share a book that somebody had written in that I had shared a while ago. I don't know if my picture is going to be blown out. Marcel United This is a textbook, but reads like a novel about a guy who had Mast cell activation syndrome. And this is something that's outside of my wheelhouse. But anybody who wants to read more on a holistic approach to mass observation syndrome, this has been, like I said, it reads like a novel. And the woman, she's a Pete who wrote it, you're reading it and you're like, Holy cow, I want to run up to the book to try to help her because her history is insane. While we're all sharing our favorite books that I would just add mine onto there.

Ben Katholi:
So that sounds interesting to I. There's only so many, you know.

Kim Pittis:
So many hours that you can read. So some clothing. I barely touch the surface. You're right, Minette. This should have been like a two hour thing. I've got two pads of legal notes here that I wanted to talk about, but somebody Ben had written about your. Your talk at the symposium, I believe it was, on small fiber neuropathy. Somebody had a question about that. How long ago? Sorry, how long ago? How sorry? How old was the patient that you were working with?

Ben Katholi:
Oh, gosh. So there's I think the one I presented at the time was 14 or let me think. Mid-teens.

Kim Pittis:
Okay.

Ben Katholi:
Yeah.

Kim Pittis:
Perfect. That was. That was. I watched it. I was sitting in the back of the ballroom when you were talking, and everybody was just like, can you when you were done, can you play it again? Because that was amazing. Any closing thoughts for you, too, that you want to share or say or close with? Dave, can you actually talk about the course, the facial distortion model one more time?

David Burke:
Because Social Distortion model, actually, Dr. Paris Herbert, who's also a deal in functional medicine, introduced me to facial distortion as she was torturing me several years back. Some of the facial distortion treatments are not pleasant. You will be badly bruised, but you will feel tons better when it's over, mostly because you're just happy it's over. But no, that actually is an amazing treatment and I use it a lot on my cerebral palsy kids. So it's based on there are six types of facial distortion and the patient shows you what is wrong with them based on their hand gestures and their physical description of if you're somebody who sits at a computer and doesn't look at your patients, you miss half of the encounter. Because, like listening to your patients when you're running FSM, you also need to watch your patients because a lot of times they will physically show you how to fix them. If you are trained in virtual distortion and I took the class probably five years ago, it is totally changed my practice and I've used it a lot on fibromyalgia patients, chronic headache patients, cerebral palsy, spasticity patients. A lot of us have pain in our trap areas and a lot of times patients will draw a line and say, Oh, it hurts right in through here. And that actually means something. Their hand gestures mean something and they are actually coming to Cleveland Clinic October 15th and 16th. They are teaching module two, which is not a prerequisite. You do not need to go in order, but there are three modules that you can take and it's all the same distortions. It's just they teach you how to treat them based on the area that they're treating. So this one involves some inversion tables and a lot of cool techniques. The inversion tables have been in my spare bedroom for three years now because it got canceled in 2020 and unfortunately they are actually still in the box. They've not even taken them out, but I am taking them back home with me. He's not getting them back. They've been in my house three years. It's not part of us.

Ben Katholi:
So that isn't that is an awesome.

David Burke:
Academy, dawg. Matt Booth is a doctor of physical therapy. He's a pretty much elite triathlete and he's a really cool guy to work with, and we'd love to have you guys plug.

Kim Pittis:
Anything, Ben, that you'd like to add for anything?

Ben Katholi:
No, I was going to say that I was not heavy utilizer of manual therapy. Coming from an MD versus a D.O. background. And I think this really got me more heavily involved with manual techniques, and I wasn't sure on how much I would use it, and I use it almost daily on many different patient types. And it's a really neat technique and very quick and. A lot of significant benefit to it.

Kim Pittis:
So but so nice to hear. I know FM has changed so many patients lives, but I love hearing how it's changed. Practitioner's practices probably more than patient life. So to as a manual therapist, when I hear somebody who doesn't traditionally practice with hands on who is now hands on, I think that works just so synchronously with FSM, you have to touch and feel smush and look and listen and really be involved with your patient. I think I feel so. I've really slowed down my practice. That was my I guess, my one question that I wanted to ask early on, we talked about a little bit how FSMA has changed your practice or your lives as practitioners. As my closing thought, I went from a really busy practice in Canada where I was seeing three patients all the time and running in between rooms to. I have really slowed down my practice and I'm spending 60 to 90 minutes with the patient in this really big, great, fluffy room where I can look somebody in the eye and engage with them and feel their tissue. And I do a lot of exercise rehabilitation with FSM, and that connection is something I will never give up for anything in the world, getting to spend time with my patients like that. So I'll let you guys and your closing thoughts if how I think you've probably talked about it just now. Then with using the fashion distortion model and being able to.

Ben Katholi:
Know, I think the two go really well together and just enhanced what we were doing manually with FSM, but. In a very different I think it's definitely changed my practice majorly just in terms of what we can offer patients. And I think the ability to improve quality of life is the biggest thing to me for any type of patient.

Kim Pittis:
Yeah, for sure. Dave closing thoughts?

David Burke:
Totally agreed. I remember when Ben first talked to me about FSM, he just kept talking about FSM. I was like, What the heck is that sound? I'm pretty open minded. I do a lot of different techniques and it really wasn't until I experienced it with patients with him and did some things after Carol that my mind was blown away. And I totally agree with you in terms of the Palpatine experience and as they teach you to think with your fingers, which I never really understood that until I started doing Microcurrent and when you put your hands on the patient and you feel the tissue softening under your fingers, and when you have people with you like a neurologist or a pain management specialist or somebody who does a lot of tissue diagnostic diagnostic work, they don't realize how bad they are until they see the effects of the FSM and they're like, Oh, that's really I've never felt a tissue changed that quickly, but it allows you as a practitioner to allow what you're feeling to translate into what you're thinking and how you're going to treat that individual in front of you. And so it's a great compliment to be able to do both.

Kim Pittis:
Her power is up. I used to think that when I talk with Carol was the fastest hour of the week. This is definitely flown by. Thank you both so much. I think we're going to have to have you as like a regular thing.

David Burke:
Everyone, I think they should pay to fly us out to a mutual place where we can all be in one room.

Kim Pittis:
I agree. Let's get that going. We're going to have to wait, I think, until the advance. Then there will be the trifecta of awesomeness right there. We will be in person. Thank you to everybody that joined by. Thank you for everybody.

Ben Katholi:
Watching, everybody.

David Burke:
Thank you, guys. It's great to see you again.

Kim Pittis:
Yeah. Hey, everybody. Sorry. So next week I'm having Jennifer Sosnowski on. She's going to be my guest. We're going to be talking about slime, mold, concussion, all things to do with that. So join us then and then on the next Wednesday, Andrew Fossett is going to be joining me. He's a guy from Columbus and maybe the rest of his group will be on there. They are visionaries as far as using FSM, so I can't wait to bring him on. So let's line up for the next couple of weeks. Thank you both for coming and we'll chat with you guys soon.

David Burke:
Good.

Kevin:
The Frequency Specific Microcurrent podcast has been produced by Frequency Specific Seminars for entertainment, educational and information purposes only. The information opinion provided in the podcast are not medical advice. Do not create any type of doctor patient relationship. And unless expressly stated, do not reflect the opinions of its affiliates, subsidiaries, or sponsors or the hosts or any of the podcast guests or affiliated professional organizations. No person should act or refrain from acting on the basis of the content provided in any podcast without first seeking appropriate medical advice and counseling. No information provided in any podcast should be used as a substitute for personalized medical advice and counseling. Fsis expressly disclaims any and all liability relating to any actions taken or not taken based on or any contents.

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Episode 53 – FSM Podcast – frequencyspecific.com

Thank you again so much. And you guys, this time is really important. The feedback that we got when I had you guys on individually was huge. It was some of our best viewed and listen to podcasts.

So it’s going to be horrible when we’re together in the same building. I know it’s going to be even worse.

The internet might break. We might just shut down, Zoom all together. So I’m going to pose some questions and then it’ll be like a game show. You’ll have to ring in to answer. I’m just kidding. You’ll just answer as you wish to answer. But if I can get you guys both to re-introduce yourselves to people who may not know the awesomeness that you both are, and so we can get a little background of what your practices may be include, and then we’re going to navigate from there.

All right. Go ahead, Dave.

So if I say anything inappropriate, it’s Ben Katholi. No. I’m Dave Burke. I’m a pediatrician at Cleveland Clinic and also a professor of primary care at Ohio University Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine. Dr. Katholi introduced me to FSM, what is about eight or nine years ago now Ben? We opened up a pediatric integrative medicine center at Cleveland Clinic and have done some really cool things with it and it’s really been life-altering for us and a lot of our patients. And we’ve been blessed to work with Kim through some of the seminars and see some of her work and incorporate some of that too. And the three of us have actually gotten to be pretty good buddies by using FSM and joining our energies with Carol and the rest of you. And we are very happy to be here again.

What? And that wraps up the podcast. Thanks, everybody.

Thanks.

Perfect. When Carol said, wait a minute, you guys are, you’re going to have Ben and Dave on at the same time. And I said, yes. Are you going to be able to get any sort of podcast done if that happens? Yeah, we’re just going to see what happens. We’re all friends here.

This may not happen again. Like Haley’s Comet.

Ben, what do you have to add to this? Can you talk about your practice?

Yes, Ben Katholi. I was at Cleveland Clinic with Dave. I’m now at Shirley Ryan in Chicago, which is a rehab hospital here. And my background is pediatric rehab. And I do as part of my practice, some integrative medicine as well. My, probably a big focus, is I have a big population of kids with a variety of developmental disabilities. Cerebral palsy, brachial plexus injuries, and that sort of thing. And I also work in pediatric chronic pain as well, and so do a variety of inpatient rehab, outpatient work, and some specialty clinics, but still get to do the FSM, which is a blessing.

And I think you’re always going to go down, your claim to fame as the practitioner that used the most machines at one time. I was telling Carol after I had talked to you. I said, you know, that he doesn’t do that often anymore? And she was like, oh, well that’s the fun in that?

And they say that, yeah. I mean, we still use multiple units, but I know that for I think for my current practice it’s been more trying to figure out what approaches work best. And so it’s less about, not that we don’t do that, but just trying to feel out what’s going to be the most effective, especially for different movements or different symptoms that we’re working on. But sometimes you still need a whole bunch of units. But maybe I haven’t done quite as many as we did before.

Sometimes you just have to. If you get a really complicated patient and if I have four of them sitting around, I’m like, okay, I’ve got 2 hours. I know this needs to be on. So there’s one machine. I know this has to run, so there’s another machine. And so there definitely is a time when you need all the machines and all the wires and all the leads and all the stickies and all the things. I’m going to back up the train right in the beginning. And I’ll have you both talk about what your favorite frequencies are right now that you’re using. I know that most of us, especially those of us, have been using it for a while. Like for me, I always have the, it’s like the frequency of the year, the one that like I’ve really highlighted or I’ve got a lot of mileage with. Let’s talk about some A channels because I think those are the ones are the most variable. We talked a little bit, Ben, last time with 94 and 321 and thank you for reintroducing that in my brain because sometimes you get really mechanical and you go through the motions and you go, okay, I know I need to run this, and you drive by the other ones really quickly. I’ve really sat with 321 and 94 and 294 a little bit more and I’ll talk about my stuff later. But Dave, why don’t we start with you? What are you or is there a condition that you’re treating a lot of? And then there is.

Recently I’ve been getting more spasticity. Actually Ben and I just gave a conference at Cleveland Clinic for the Spasticity Clinic. And so with spasticity I like to use 81/10, increase secretions of the spinal cord from head to toe. I also will sometimes use 81/396 from either the base of the neck to the hands or the lumbar spine to the feet, just to increase secretions of the nerves to help calm things down. Just last week, I had the opportunity to treat a young lady who had complex regional pain syndrome, which she had had for four years and had gotten referred to me by another one of our colleagues, Dr. Ellen Rosenquist, who is a pediatric pain management specialist. And we were able to totally take her pain away from a seven out of ten to a zero out of ten and 35 minutes.

Wow.

Coming back in on Friday. But so we were able to use 43/96 from low back to feet. And I treated 40/10 from neck to feet and also ran concussion on her. And I ran some depression anxiety on her just because of all of the things that she had to give up during that length of time. And she was absolutely blown away. Today I treated a father of one of my patients. I don’t usually see a ton of adults, but this is a guy who’s pushing 50 years, a former Marine. And I always have a place in my heart for veterans. And he had some nerve damage. He had compressed his brachial plexus from wearing a really tight backpack when he was doing some training 20 years ago. And has had chronic pain and limited range of motion. And so I was channeling my friend Kim Pittis and ran 40 and 396 from neck to hand and I ran scar tissue of the nerves while doing some range of motion and some facial distortion techniques, which I am going to shamelessly put a plug in for. There’s a conference coming up at Cleveland Clinic October 15th and 16th for the facial distortion model for anyone who’s interested from academy dot org and took his pain away completely and he was kept doing his range of motion with his arms and he’s like, I can’t do this as he’s doing it with no pain. And his eyes were about the size of saucers. And it was amazing to be able to help one of our veterans who helped us. So that was one of my most rewarding things.

Fantastic, and thanks for walking us through the ways you were treating them. And sometimes I think we can get super complicated and we’re really searching for investigational frequencies or something. That’s really outrageous. And I think we need to start with I typically will always start with statistically what I think will work the best and 40 and ten and 40 and three, 96. I think especially when you have pain, you don’t have to go searching necessarily for the cause of pain. I try to always teach that in the sports course. Yes, maybe it’s caused by something way outside your scope of practice or maybe it’s caused by something that you really have to do a lot of detective work to find. But pain is pain. And your number one goal is to get your patient, to get that pain, to drop that first treatment, or there won’t be a treatment number two to try to figure out what it’s caused from. So thanks for reminding us about 40 and ten and 43, 96, Ben, what can you add to this?

So I think last time we talked a lot about treatment of kind of neurologic disorders and you mentioned 94 and 321 and 49. And I think since the last podcast, it’s been a lot of nine seventies. It’s the season, but a lot of I’ve been using a lot of nine seventies with benefit. And I would say the other thing is just. I know Carol talks a lot about vagal nerve dysfunction and kind of seeing a lot of interesting results with that, seeing a lot of odd viral reactions affecting not even COVID, but kind of other infections or things. We had a patient with really severe tonsillitis and then developed some this and a lot of GI symptoms related to I don’t know whether it was antibiotics, but a lot of vagal nerve issues. And so we ended up treating bacterial frequencies and viral frequencies in the Vagus and that really improves symptoms significantly, I think. Continue to be amazed at what Vegas can do in both kind of jai symptomatology, but also in the growing evidence for it in use of kind of neuroplasticity. Some really neat articles coming out about verb stem and how that can affect motor recovery in different types of central nervous system injuries. So that’s been I don’t remember when our last podcast was, but that’s been the big focus the last month or two is that I’m remembering anyway, that would be something different from what we talked about last time.

I’m going to go back. So some of our some of the people that listen don’t know the numbers often because they’re just laypeople. So the 1970s are bank for the emotional or the emotions. And so when we think about the 1970s on our channel, are you using them as it’s written in the laminate, what how they’re applied to with the B channel? Or are you using it in the tissue that you’re trying to affect?

So two things. Since I do some acupuncture sometimes if I’m spotting what I looks like, kind of meridian dysfunction through a whole part of the body, I think 970 and that specific channel for that organ can be really helpful, but I also do it in specific tissues to treating as we usually would with 40 and three, 96 and other approaches. But then 970 and those tissues as well.

What about what about you, Dave? Nine seventies. How do you use them?

I a lot of times we’ll do it depends on what I’m treating. If I have somebody like this. Another machine that I was working on a couple of weeks ago had some trauma to his abdomen from a motor vehicle accident when he was in the military. And so I was treating his general anxiety and depression, which he had had a longstanding history of, as well as PTSD. But I had some extra units, so I got out my PrecisionCare and put in 970 and I started treating the fascia, the connective tissue, things like that, and really got a pretty good smosh. And this is a guy who had bilateral hernia surgery and an appendectomy because of his lower abdominal pain, which didn’t take care of his pain because that wasn’t the cause of his pain. His pain was from his accident and it wasn’t until I started doing body work on him and releasing some partial distortion restrictions and running Microcurrent that he was able to recall the the injury, which was really cool because I was working on him and I just saw his face light up and he said, Did something happen? And I said, Well, I just felt the tissue release. And he goes, We just had a I just had a flashback of my car accident, which I had forgotten about. And so when we were able to release that energy that was stored in that tissue for, what, 20, 30 years now, I felt the release.

I felt it as a tissue release. He felt it as an emotional release. And his pain was gone at the end of that period of time. Yeah, I treated his anxiety and he’s actually interestingly, he’s coming back in on Friday with his daughter, who I think I presented before for chronic rib pain that had seen four different specialists. And we were able to fix that with Microcurrent and manipulations as well. Yeah. So when you put your hands on the patient and you’re and you have that connection and you feel like a huge release more than what you’re expecting, those are a lot of times there’s an emotional component with that. And it’s interesting to sometimes ask the patient, What are you feeling? Because they may be reliving something that they’ve been through, especially kids who have been through trauma or PTSD or veterans or surgical issues or divorce, rape or whatever. So watch your patients faces if you get a reaction that you think is more generous than you were anticipating, because there’s a lot of times there’s a really cool story behind that can be very life altering for the patient when you can help them work through things that have been stored up in their body for 20 or 30 years.

That’s a very important point I want to talk about for a second, because I talked about this a few podcasts ago with I think it was with Carol. I’m starting to forget who I’m telling all my stories to. But I was in college and we did a ton of outreach to get volunteer hours in. And when you’re doing manual therapy, as many bodies as you can treat the better. And we were volunteering and I had treated we were doing a lot of anterior neck work and we were warned about the longest colli and one of our teachers was calling it the sobbing muscle. So to be careful when you are releasing longest coli and sure enough here I was young Kim in college doing some very great anterior neck manipulation and the patient shot up and screamed, I was raped and I had no idea what to do or what to say. And that patient was freaked out because it was like she wasn’t prepared to blurt that out. So that’s an extreme case of putting your hands on somebody and having somebody release something like that. But I think we see a lot of it with FSM and it sneaks up on us really slowly as so many times. You’ll have patients that start telling you stories and about injuries and they don’t even realize that they’re giving you so much information on how to help their case because they just start relaxing and they start talking. And to your point, I’m not sure what is it that starts unlocking the memory of old injuries?

Yeah, etc.. I really think it’s the connection, the energetic connection that you make when you put your hands on patients and you are able to help relieve their pain. And it’s never been a negative experience for me. It’s always been a positive. I’ve had so many people say I’ve never told anyone that I was date raped in college. My husband doesn’t know, my therapist doesn’t know. You’re the only one that I’ve told. And then we can. Fortunately, I’m a physician. It can help them navigate, hopefully, but get them into therapy and get them to work through some of these longstanding issues. And it’s amazing how many patients with fibromyalgia, chronic headaches, chronic fatigue have had negative physical or emotional things going on in their life that they don’t even remember what happened or have suppressed it to the point where they never made the connection. And when you can talk about how energy works and she and energy flow and Reiki and all of that, something magical happens. And I don’t know, actually, Dr. Hathaway just sent me a book yesterday that I started reading by Neil Nathan, who is another big Microcurrent proponent and national speaker. And I’m only on the second chapter and I’m already blown away and my head is expanding as his words come to me. So it’s fascinating to help. I don’t know how it works, but it does.

That book is really interesting. A patient of mine gave it to me and I felt motivated to share it with Dave.

Neil is going to be at the Advanced in our next Advanced, so I don’t know where all these awesome people it’s going to be like a two month long advance with all the speakers that she’s talking about coming. We’re going to have to go all night long, I think, because I don’t know how she’s going to get everybody in. Do you have anything to add with the emotional frequencies, Ben?

No, I’m not sure I could do it better justice than Dave. David, I think I think there’s a lot of manual practitioners that experience these releases, whether you’re an llmt or a cranial sacral therapist or whatever. Hands on modality that you’re applying that. And I hadn’t really experienced it until during acupuncture training. We saw some kind of emotional releases from people, and I wasn’t prepared for it because that wasn’t something that I ran across in my training. And I think seeing more of it with FSM, I’ve come to have a healthier respect for it and understanding and also looking for it. But it’s I agree, it’s it’s I think it’s part of the healing process. And so it’s something that is. Maybe not everybody needs it, but I think we all have emotions related to whatever symptoms we’re dealing with. And.

For sure. One of the one of the cases that I presented years ago was I’ll be the first to admit I didn’t use the 1970s for probably the first two years I practiced with FS and I didn’t use them. I thought that part was weird in the course. I wanted scar tissue, I wanted range of motion, I wanted bone healing, I wanted all that stuff. I was working with really tough athletes, so I admittedly I checked out when we started hearing about that. And then I was working with a professional hockey player who had a huge contusion on his glute from two two freak falls during a game. Broken blood vessels. Nerve, nerve damage. And I was. On treatment, I think three or four. I had got almost all the range of motion, pretty close to symmetrical. All the inflammation was going down, but I was trying to get more hip flexion. So as glute was being really restricted and he supine on the table and I’m trying to get his hip to move and it’s it’s not going anywhere. Everything that I punched in the PrecisionCare was useless. I was super frustrated. And then the patient starts talking to me, really talking like I’m so frustrated with this injury.

I’m like, Yeah, me too, man. I’m frustrated. Like, I’m in. No, and I’m scared. Like, what if I lose my spot in the lineup? I’m like, Whatever. I’m trying to get your glute to move. And then I’m like thinking, Oh, he’s giving me the answers right now. He’s frustrated, he’s scared. We have frequencies for these. So I thought, why not test this objectively? Ran the nine seventies and wouldn’t know what passive hip flexion starts gaining more and more. And I was like, Oh, they worked. So I think to your point, the patient starts telling you things and Dave, you just said it to he said, This is the first time I’ve been able to open up to anybody to talk about how scared I am with this injury. And there is that huge connection there. And so I don’t know if it’s the frequencies that, like you said, remove that blockage or them just saying it out loud helps that deep sigh that your patients take on the table. Sometimes you’re like, okay, this is starting to work.

It’s so funny though, because how often when you’re working on someone and you feel stuck that the patient tells you the answer? Yes, they just say something. It’s just I just feel like this needs to be reset. Like, Oh, you mean like 321 or.

It feels like a deep.

Old bruise issue. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, you’re exactly right. Your body. And I’m not listening to you know.

I know my father used to always say, you have two ears in one mouth for a reason, and I didn’t really get it as a kid, but now I’m like, okay, listen, so the questions are keep popping up, but I want to get to one before we get too far off off topic that was sent a little while ago to you, Ben. Like I had everything right here ready to go. And of course.

From prior or today, I was just pulling.

Up. This is from a couple. This is from a couple of days ago.

Oh.

They had emailed it to me, so it was about 49. So this is a follow up to when you and I were talking, because we talked a lot about 49, which I have always loved, 49, more than 81. So I was really happy to hear. So it’s always nice when you hear other practitioners that are also liking the same frequencies as you and also discounting the ones that you don’t like. There’s that validation there. The question says, I’ve been using the 49 frequency with some results like 49, three, 96, 49, 610 in addition to some other sequences for specific pathologies regarding running 40 and ten, I have been following it with 81 and ten for a few minutes. Under that conditions, might 49 and ten be used in place of 81 and ten, or in addition to 81 and ten? Have you an experience using 49 and ten? If so, has it worked?

So I think I tend to combine the two.

Like 49 and 81.

Yeah, I’ll do both. I feel like 81. And when we talk about kind of cord sensitization and that indication like Carol always talks about with Palmer sensitivity and cord vein and sensitivity up and down the back, that is very classic for 4010 and that classic indication for 8110 of like spasticity or very vocal muscle spasms. And at 49, I do, but I don’t have the same indication, but I definitely do because I feel like it’s supportive and I feel like when I run it, I get a little longer benefit in general, but I don’t have the same like clear cut. Here’s when I have to use it. I do try to use both, but I don’t have to pick one over the other. I don’t know about, you.

Know, I don’t pick one. I run 8110 more often, but a lot of times I do finish up with vitality for a few minutes and. You had actually mentioned a couple of months ago when we were having a conversation with Carol about how both of you had been running more vitality channels with for longer periods of time. And like you both, I have found that vitality I think also is probably a time related or time dependent channel. And so instead of running it for one or 2 minutes like I typically did, I’ve now been running it for longer periods of time. As long as I start noticing the patient kind of starting to get a little foggy after three or 4 minutes. And so I’ve been doing a lot more with vitality, which I never that was my 970 for you, Uk.m I hardly ever used vitality until a couple of months ago, other than maybe for a minute or two at the end of most of my protocol. So I’ve been doing a lot more with vitality. So I don’t know that I have a whole lot to offer because I’m still been playing around with that recently, but I have a feeling I’m going to be using more of it in the future.

I’ve had a ton of success with 49 postoperatively and I think it’s been it’s been a game changer to use my FSM sports tagline and I agree I think it’s time dependent. I used to always throw it on the CustomCare between two and 4 minutes and now I’ve been putting it on for at least 30 minutes, if not hours for post-op, not acutely post-op, maybe one month out for sure. I’m going to get to some of the questions that are on here live because I have a feeling they’re just going to keep coming and coming. Someone said, I love the 49 since 1992. Susan, you are ahead of the curve here. Thanks for adding that and making me feel sad that I haven’t paid attention to it more. It’s one of those loops. Can you keep naming the frequencies? It helps understanding the treatment? Yes. We’ll start using the words also besides the numbers that that helps us. So one of the questions comes from Minette says, Good day, everybody. So excited that Dr. Weatherly and Dr. Burke are here. So am I. Minute I have a 22 month old kiddo who has a right cerebral hemorrhage when he was born. History of seizure still on meds and apnea. He’s currently delayed with his milestones and left UEE and weakness. His muscle tone started to get better, but not enough to provide stability and standing and ability to use. Left you for play. I just got a green light from neurologists to use from yesterday. I’m excited and nervous at the same time. Recommendations and what frequency to start.

And I guess the question from Annette is this a kid with spastic hemiplegia or is he more kind of low tone at that point? Because I think that would help determine what we’d be targeting. I think one thing that we use is.

Like I’m going to look for the third point she wrote. She wrote for my spastic quadriplegic, kiddo, I’m not sure if it’s the same person.

Maybe a different it looks like it may be a different.

Age.

So if it’s spastic.

I wrote low tone.

Oh, look, tone. Never mind. All right. Because definitely we at least from my standpoint, I treat the kids with spasticity very differently than the low muscle tone kids. And I think for the low muscle tone kids targeting I start outside and work and so we’ll target kind of. 49 and the nerve 396 and then we’ll treat the cord and then we’ll treat the motor cortex or the cerebellum. And Dave, I don’t know if you differentiate from that, but versus the spastic kids, actually, one of the OTS that we worked with in Cleveland, Jesse Stricker, figured out running neuroma and FTP together. Both those programs seem to really affect muscle tone and also sensation to the affected limb, meaning the kids that were old enough to tell us said that they felt more symmetric sensation between the two limbs for an extended period which was super interesting, which then helped them have better use of it in therapy because they had a better sense of themselves in space. Dave Do you have anything to add for.

Kind of so just kind of reading through their vignette, I have had really interesting results when I saw you had mentioned there was a brain hemorrhage. So I’ve had really interesting success with treating stop the bleeding of that part of the brain.

So 18.

18 and 90, if this was frontal lobe for this patient or if it’s cerebellum, 84, 94, even though the bleed was years ago, I’ve had really neat responses in my patients who have had former brain bleeds and then also treat scar tissue of that area because that bleed had to go somewhere and it’s typically into scar tissue. So treat that and then also remember treat the scarring of the dura. And a lot of times that can have a pretty profound effect, especially if that scar tissue is causing some nerve impingement. Because if your spinal fluid is impinged from scar tissue, then the dura a lot of times will help release that.

Really interesting point. I want to make sure that we heard correctly because I think a lot of us, me included, would always use 18 and just those acute conditions. And one way that I’m trying to teach this again is if the possibility existed for that area to bleed, use 18, right? If it once bleed. And I find that can be really useful when you know something is scarred and you’re running all the scarring frequencies and you aren’t getting anywhere to go back and try 18 again. So really helpful tip Dave. Thank you.

Yeah. So sometimes treat it like an onion you’re peeling back level. So sometimes you have to go to the very first level of the injury even though it may have been years ago. So you can get so far for one appointment, but I lost the patients with chronic issues. This is a marathon, not a sprint. So we can we’re taking a little bit off at a time. It’s going to take some time to get through the Sol. And I don’t want to overwhelm the patient. So we’re like, we’re better. Let’s see you back in a week or a couple of days or whatever your schedule permits, or if you have somebody else that works with you, maybe they can come back and see your assistant and they can give them a set of frequencies to run in the meantime, before you see them again.

Excellent. Monette asks for autism and autism spectrum. The patients that she sees are usually nonverbal, high sensory issues between sensitivity and seeker low muscle tone globally. Aside from using concussion protocol, any recommendations in those cases?

So autism is tricky. I know that after my even my last podcast, several people sent me their autism protocols that they’ve been working on, too. So there’s a lot of different ways to go about treating autism, whether it be herbal things, homeopathic things, nutrition, treating different parts of the liver, the adrenal cortex, things like that. I adopted mine from Carol’s neurodegenerative protocol, which was, I think initially made for Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s, and it’s part of the core. But I adapted that into my autism protocol, which we refer to as neuro conditions too, which is in several of my ADHD talks, I believe, from a couple of years ago. That should be on the some of the advanced former slides. And I also treat I treat them for ADHD, which I do have a 22 minute protocol I think also in her slides and then treat the emotional component of either relax and balance or depression or anxiety. So I typically we’ll run three different machines on them. I have these programed into CustomCare’s. If you can’t find those protocols, reach out to me and I can get them to you.

I have nothing to add. I’m going to keep going down with minute minute. Your questions are great for spastic quadriplegia. Cp With poor muscle tone to trunk muscles used a combination of 40, 49 and ten, 40, 49, 396 to improve the rigidity to lean some to left. You see, the 81 seemed to make the rigidity worse. I use concussion protocol with Vagus, which helped my 30 month toddler deal with constant illness. He recently was able to sit with minimal support for 20 minutes and able to stand one placed against a wall wall without collapsing any frequency, combination, recommendations or protocols to better improve is overall development.

Is that addressed to? I think Ben should go with that one first.

So I think that when we see kids with cerebral palsy and they have high muscle tone, I think we have to look at them all a little bit differently. And sometimes definitely there’s stuff that I think will be a slam dunk and is totally the opposite reaction. And this is a good example of one where Annette tried 81 and it seemed to make the tone worse, but 49 help. I think that it helps emphasize the fact that there’s a difference between those 80, 81 and 49 in terms of the effects on the spinal cord. But I think trying to remember and cerebral palsy that there’s that map or in any kind of injury to the central nervous system, there’s that map called the homunculus. And what is impacted and close to the midline is more the legs. And then the next step out in kind of the brain is the arms. And then the face is the lowest down aspect. And based on the description, I’m guessing that there’s a stronger effect in the more medial parts of the homunculus. And so one thing that we’ve played around with aside from this is targeting some of those other motor cortex frequencies that are on the advanced. And we get asked often like which one is which? And I’m frankly still figuring that out.

I think I have some ideas, but still for consistent responses, I do try them all, but I haven’t decided which one I think is related to which part of the homunculus. But I do treat the basics on those. Do we have? I still love Dave’s protocol. The neuro too. I think that can be really helpful also. But I guess the bigger question is, are you trying to treat the tone or do you want to treat activation? And sometimes trying to help activate the muscles helps their body relax those muscles because you’re getting better activation of the motor pathways. So sometimes if we’re too focused on treating the positive symptoms like spasms or rigidity or dystonia, if we take a different tact and try to treat kind of motor pathways or motor activation, sometimes I get a better response with that, but that’s my sort of thought. On why the 81 versus the 49. And again, I’ve been playing with both of those in the central nervous system and I like this comment about the use of the Vagus. I thought that was really cool to Dave. I don’t know if you have any other any things to add for that 30 month toddler.

The other thing is the basal ganglia frequencies. So running the basics with 988, which is for basal ganglia and then 40 for inflammation and 81 to increase secretions. I’ve had good luck with that. And again, treating the scarring of the dura. And then also look for any kind of if you’re somebody who does manual work, any kind of strain patterns, vertical vectors or folding unfolding, if you’re somebody who does spatial distortion model and if you aren’t, then that might be something that you might want to look into or refer to a or chiropractor or or that’s been trained in that. And if I left any of the specialties out, I apologize. Sometimes for some can only get you so far if there’s some sort of a mechanical restriction. Don’t forget to treat the physical part of the restrictions as well.

Good that you can chime in if there’s any more things that we missed here. Summer had asked two questions, please. Any suggestions for autoimmune vasculitis and hyper inflated lungs? Oh. We’re just like we’re swinging for the fences today, aren’t we? Really good ones. You guys go.

I’ll let Dave take the vasculitis ones. I think the hyper inflated lungs we’ve seen. So I. See a lot of hyperinflation, injuries or ventilatory issues on our inpatient patients who require ventilatory support. And I think looking at is this and I’m not sure some are what type of population you’re working with, but we see some hyperinflation with obviously we work in Pedes, so I don’t see COPD or that kind of hyperinflation that we see with obstructive disease. And so I see a lot of diaphragmatic dysfunction or spasms or. Diaphragmatic hemi paralysis or a variety of things. So I worked with a speech therapist who had a big focus on diaphragmatic dysfunction, and we’d been working on some protocols for that, and that’s had really interesting results. Treating the nerve and the diaphragm, which is interesting. The diaphragm is 84, so it’s a shared frequency with the cerebellum, which I find.

Fascinating.

And it all fits together and makes sense. On why both your breathing and your kind of coordination improves together. So I’m not sure if, but that’s one approach I’ve had for the hyperinflation, but I don’t know if some are if your population is more kind of adults and more like true respiratory disease and that I have less experience with.

Dave, anything to add with that?

I don’t have a ton of experience treating lungs. Again, pediatrician. I do have kids with cystic fibrosis and I’ve treated several adult patients with coronavirus post scarring and things like that, one of whom was a police officer in town who ended up on chemo, which is heart lung bypass for several months and had a lot of scar tissue. And fortunately, he had a CAT scan, which I was able to pull up the radiology report and based on their translation of what was going on with his lungs, it’s like we have frequencies for fibrosis, we have frequencies for scar tissue. And so I was able to plug in the numbers for fibrosis, for scarring, of the bronchioles, of the alveoli, of the lungs, also treat the diaphragm. And we have frequencies in the advanced four C, four, five, cervical three for five nerves which innervate the diaphragm. So you can treat those and also the Vagus as well. I had good results with those and obviously if you’re having hyperinflation, is there something mechanical also going on with the rib cage in the diaphragm that you can maybe work on, maybe do some rib raising techniques or myofascial release to that area? Diaphragm release, things like that can all be beneficial.

Excellent. Yeah. Then I have to just touch on the 84 is the diaphragm and the cerebellum because I do a lot of diaphragm release rib work. And when I first started, I remember thinking what we have what’s what’s diaphragm again? I checked on the buddy. I’m like, No, that can’t be right because that’s the cerebellum. And then you have that moment, you’re like, it’s the same frequency for a reason.

Yeah.

Oh, that’s funny. Yeah, I remember that, that treatment specifically, it’s very interesting. And you’re right, there is something about breath and movement that is just innately connected. I’m having a ton of fun with the two of that summer road. Again, it’s me. I just found out two days ago in the E.R. that my lungs were hyper inflated.

Oh, no.

Okay. So it’s summer. And then she also discovered the autoimmune vasculitis in the past week. So Summer, this is about you. Okay. I’m going to go back up here. Marla asked, has dystonia been addressed with FSM?

They’ve has.

Oh, Dave, I think you’re muted.

Sorry. My dog was barking, so I put myself on mute. The patient that I was telling, I think the last podcast I mentioned, a girl named Maria who we presented actually Keith Phillip presented at the International Symposium a couple of years ago and I was looking through her MRI report. I saw that she had a brain bleed to the basal ganglia and she had just tonic to the point where they had to physically restrain her because she was just getting so banged up. And when we ran the frequencies for bleeding into the basal ganglia and inflammation of the basal ganglia, her arms just she was going from this to her arms just dropped and she looked stoned. And so I’ve run that on quite a few of my kids with this tonic CGRP and it’s been amazing. So don’t forget to treat the basal ganglia for that one. The autoimmune question Vagus various frequencies for that. And then you need an anti-inflammatory diet because you need to figure out what’s causing this reaction.

All right. I’m going to shut the questions down soon. Just kidding. Louise asked, Do you use either of the frequencies for teach one and teach two with autoimmune?

I have not.

Okay. I have nothing to add. Ben.

No, I don’t. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. And then, Alvaro, you mentioned the frequency for phrenic nerve. I’m not sure who that was for. Did we talk about that?

I think I think we were talking about diaphragm. And so at least as far as I’m aware, we don’t have a specific phrenic phrenic nerve. Frequency. And so we do, like Dave mentioned, the three, four or five nerve roots which support the diaphragm. That’s the kind of innovation. And so that’s typically how we go about it, treat the nerve routes plus the nerve, plus the diaphragm. And that tends to be beneficial a lot of 321 for it.

321 I was just going to say on a when we’re doing a lot of see that’s when you start you put netters Carol came down here a couple of weeks ago for me to work on her shoulder and it was so funny. I’m like, I just need to get netters. And I was putting it on my little trolley. She just put it on my stomach for crying out loud. So whenever I’m treating diaphragm I love to have netters has a really great picture. I almost always have it open because I need to get a visual of what I’m doing, where I’m accessing it. And yet each nerve doesn’t have its own frequency. But again, like going back to basics, is it scarred in there is something folded over on itself. There’s so much adipose there, so a lot of other add ons that you can run, especially with the diaphragm. And then when we’re using 13 especially, 13 loves to be mobilized, even getting people to just do Breathwork while you’re you don’t have to be really specifically trained in visceral manipulation to just have them do a lot of deep breathing with that exhale to get things to compress and expand is wonderful. So there’s that question. I got another question that was emailed in and we’ll see if you guys want to talk about this one. It’s the TTH protocol, and this one always gets a lot of questions when we teach the teach it and then with patients and what is it and when do I use it? And I think so many of us have different interpretations of TTH and when to use it. So I’d like for you guys to start with that one. Dave, why don’t you start with TTH?

So I played around with this a lot when I wrapped up the first classes because everybody has I’ve got this and I’ve got this and I’ve got this. So I tend to run the TTH when I have patients who have multiple diagnoses or they have multiple. Injuries or. I just got over this concussion and then I tripped and then I broke my arm. And then my mother in law just moved into the house and my dog died. And they are just they tend to have a lot of stuff happen to them. And how much of this is coincidence versus how much of this is your bad juju that just needs to energetically be corrected? So that’s when I play around with it. I’ve had some pretty decent results with it sometimes and just watch the face glaze over. The patient will be like, That’s interesting. I haven’t had anything earth shattering with it, but it’s always fun to play, especially after you listen to Carol Talk. I always revisit that after I attend one of her core seminars and because I have not had anything profound, but I’m still waiting for it to happen. It’s going to happen one of these days. I know it.

Dave, what do you have to add? Or three have been similar.

I think it varies and I’ll go through periods of months where I’m not using it at all and then I’ll have. A couple of patients that I’m adding it in multiple times for them, but I don’t have the same energetic talents Dave does. Still feeling it out, but I agree. I go a lot on kind of what Carol described, and always I think with all of these protocols and frequencies, there’s this kind of continued re understanding of how they’re used and how we treat them. And I think that I think as people start to get creative with these, we’ll find other uses for it or understandings of it that are a similar use to Dave.

Agreed. Louise. What is TTH? I think it’s just translated to tendency to heel, but it’s actually the opposite. It’s like the resistance of healing or what’s it also called, like energetic spiders and snakes. Carol tells this very colorful story of. Stuff happening when somebody was on the table is energetic thing. She had a clairvoyant, I think, working with her at the clinic who could see energetic shifting. And Carol was freaked out that whatever was leaving, the person was somehow in the room and to make sure that it left. So again, a lot of different interpretations. I think for anybody objectively, though, trying to figure out like, when do I run this? It’s that history that you’re just like, holy cow. All that happened to you and your. In the last year or two. So things like that. I’m not sure how it works, but I do just sometimes if I have an extra CustomCare laying around and that patient tells that story or you’re just like, Holy cow, no harm in running that, I tend to run it when I’m like dropping things all the time. If I’m not getting great parking spaces anymore, stuff like that, I’m just like, something is clearly off. I need to run. I never run it for pain. I don’t run it for anything other than there’s just some good hitting the mute that was quick to quit barking. Kevin will edit the barking, but I agree. I don’t know if there’s anything more objective that we know about TTH. And whenever I go to the advanced meetings, I always tend to ask people about it and some people have really great stories about it.

But other than other than that, the only time I’ve ran it was there’s one actually frequency pair and I don’t remember what it is taken from the TTH protocol and it is just resistance to heal. And we had a patient that nothing worked. She was really she was a practitioner in the sports course and she didn’t feel smush and she didn’t get pain reduction. And it was everything that we tried nothing. It was like the equivalent of the toddler, just like crossing her arms. And this isn’t working. And so I had ran that one pair and it was like instant closed your eyes, calm stone. What was that? I’m like, I don’t know. It was just that one pair that jumped out at me and it was resistance to healing. So sometimes I think it can be used in that case. No, I’m sorry. We can’t make this to hours. We will have them both back with Carol. And then maybe we can make like a big a big, long one. Yes. Tendency to have sorry, tendency to have not tendency to heal. Tendency to have. And the sentence can go on from there. What else? Oh, Michelle wrote regarding the autoimmune encephalitis, consider running infections like Lyme and co infections and mold specifically causes autoimmune encephalitis a.k.a brain on fire. Yes, we have such a wealth of information that comes at us all the time.

So that was the question on Neil Nathan book.

Oh, yes.

Does that show up?

Nope.

It’s called Energetic Diagnosis.

Oh, yes. I have that book.

I don’t know why that’s not.

I think because you’re about there it.

Is my.

Background. Yeah. If you blur your background, then we can see bookshelves.

Oh, they’re not pretty. They are not good. I don’t know how to do that.

That’s okay. If you bring it up again, like close to your face again and back it up just a little bit. Nope.

Your hands are not hilarious.

See if I can find energetic diagnostics.

Yes. Energy diagnosis, I think. Right by Neil Nathan.

Energetic diagnosis by Neil Nathan M.D..

There it is.

Another really good.

Book. It’s like book club.

Is Jim Oshmans Energy Medicine. Yes, which is what I had. But there are parts of it that are fascinating. And if you ever get a chance to hear him speak or watch any of his videos, he’s amazing.

Yes, he is. I have a picture with him from an advanced a couple of years ago. And my kids are like, who’s that? I’m like, Oh, he’s like this amazing scientist. Like, I’m such a nerd. Like, no, you’re trying to think he’s some sort of retired rock star or something. I’m like, He is in my world because your.

World is.

When he speaks. It is amazing. While we’re talking about books, I wanted to share a book that somebody had written in that I had shared a while ago. I don’t know if my picture is going to be blown out. Marcel United This is a textbook, but reads like a novel about a guy who had Mast cell activation syndrome. And this is something that’s outside of my wheelhouse. But anybody who wants to read more on a holistic approach to mass observation syndrome, this has been, like I said, it reads like a novel. And the woman, she’s a Pete who wrote it, you’re reading it and you’re like, Holy cow, I want to run up to the book to try to help her because her history is insane. While we’re all sharing our favorite books that I would just add mine onto there.

So that sounds interesting to I. There’s only so many, you know.

So many hours that you can read. So some clothing. I barely touch the surface. You’re right, Minette. This should have been like a two hour thing. I’ve got two pads of legal notes here that I wanted to talk about, but somebody Ben had written about your. Your talk at the symposium, I believe it was, on small fiber neuropathy. Somebody had a question about that. How long ago? Sorry, how long ago? How sorry? How old was the patient that you were working with?

Oh, gosh. So there’s I think the one I presented at the time was 14 or let me think. Mid-teens.

Okay.

Yeah.

Perfect. That was. That was. I watched it. I was sitting in the back of the ballroom when you were talking, and everybody was just like, can you when you were done, can you play it again? Because that was amazing. Any closing thoughts for you, too, that you want to share or say or close with? Dave, can you actually talk about the course, the facial distortion model one more time?

Because Social Distortion model, actually, Dr. Paris Herbert, who’s also a deal in functional medicine, introduced me to facial distortion as she was torturing me several years back. Some of the facial distortion treatments are not pleasant. You will be badly bruised, but you will feel tons better when it’s over, mostly because you’re just happy it’s over. But no, that actually is an amazing treatment and I use it a lot on my cerebral palsy kids. So it’s based on there are six types of facial distortion and the patient shows you what is wrong with them based on their hand gestures and their physical description of if you’re somebody who sits at a computer and doesn’t look at your patients, you miss half of the encounter. Because, like listening to your patients when you’re running FSM, you also need to watch your patients because a lot of times they will physically show you how to fix them. If you are trained in virtual distortion and I took the class probably five years ago, it is totally changed my practice and I’ve used it a lot on fibromyalgia patients, chronic headache patients, cerebral palsy, spasticity patients. A lot of us have pain in our trap areas and a lot of times patients will draw a line and say, Oh, it hurts right in through here. And that actually means something. Their hand gestures mean something and they are actually coming to Cleveland Clinic October 15th and 16th. They are teaching module two, which is not a prerequisite. You do not need to go in order, but there are three modules that you can take and it’s all the same distortions. It’s just they teach you how to treat them based on the area that they’re treating. So this one involves some inversion tables and a lot of cool techniques. The inversion tables have been in my spare bedroom for three years now because it got canceled in 2020 and unfortunately they are actually still in the box. They’ve not even taken them out, but I am taking them back home with me. He’s not getting them back. They’ve been in my house three years. It’s not part of us.

So that isn’t that is an awesome.

Academy, dawg. Matt Booth is a doctor of physical therapy. He’s a pretty much elite triathlete and he’s a really cool guy to work with, and we’d love to have you guys plug.

Anything, Ben, that you’d like to add for anything?

No, I was going to say that I was not heavy utilizer of manual therapy. Coming from an MD versus a D.O. background. And I think this really got me more heavily involved with manual techniques, and I wasn’t sure on how much I would use it, and I use it almost daily on many different patient types. And it’s a really neat technique and very quick and. A lot of significant benefit to it.

So but so nice to hear. I know FM has changed so many patients lives, but I love hearing how it’s changed. Practitioner’s practices probably more than patient life. So to as a manual therapist, when I hear somebody who doesn’t traditionally practice with hands on who is now hands on, I think that works just so synchronously with FSM, you have to touch and feel smush and look and listen and really be involved with your patient. I think I feel so. I’ve really slowed down my practice. That was my I guess, my one question that I wanted to ask early on, we talked about a little bit how FSMA has changed your practice or your lives as practitioners. As my closing thought, I went from a really busy practice in Canada where I was seeing three patients all the time and running in between rooms to. I have really slowed down my practice and I’m spending 60 to 90 minutes with the patient in this really big, great, fluffy room where I can look somebody in the eye and engage with them and feel their tissue. And I do a lot of exercise rehabilitation with FSM, and that connection is something I will never give up for anything in the world, getting to spend time with my patients like that. So I’ll let you guys and your closing thoughts if how I think you’ve probably talked about it just now. Then with using the fashion distortion model and being able to.

Know, I think the two go really well together and just enhanced what we were doing manually with FSM, but. In a very different I think it’s definitely changed my practice majorly just in terms of what we can offer patients. And I think the ability to improve quality of life is the biggest thing to me for any type of patient.

Yeah, for sure. Dave closing thoughts?

Totally agreed. I remember when Ben first talked to me about FSM, he just kept talking about FSM. I was like, What the heck is that sound? I’m pretty open minded. I do a lot of different techniques and it really wasn’t until I experienced it with patients with him and did some things after Carol that my mind was blown away. And I totally agree with you in terms of the Palpatine experience and as they teach you to think with your fingers, which I never really understood that until I started doing Microcurrent and when you put your hands on the patient and you feel the tissue softening under your fingers, and when you have people with you like a neurologist or a pain management specialist or somebody who does a lot of tissue diagnostic diagnostic work, they don’t realize how bad they are until they see the effects of the FSM and they’re like, Oh, that’s really I’ve never felt a tissue changed that quickly, but it allows you as a practitioner to allow what you’re feeling to translate into what you’re thinking and how you’re going to treat that individual in front of you. And so it’s a great compliment to be able to do both.

Her power is up. I used to think that when I talk with Carol was the fastest hour of the week. This is definitely flown by. Thank you both so much. I think we’re going to have to have you as like a regular thing.

Everyone, I think they should pay to fly us out to a mutual place where we can all be in one room.

I agree. Let’s get that going. We’re going to have to wait, I think, until the advance. Then there will be the trifecta of awesomeness right there. We will be in person. Thank you to everybody that joined by. Thank you for everybody.

Watching, everybody.

Thank you, guys. It’s great to see you again.

Yeah. Hey, everybody. Sorry. So next week I’m having Jennifer Sosnowski on. She’s going to be my guest. We’re going to be talking about slime, mold, concussion, all things to do with that. So join us then and then on the next Wednesday, Andrew Fossett is going to be joining me. He’s a guy from Columbus and maybe the rest of his group will be on there. They are visionaries as far as using FSM, so I can’t wait to bring him on. So let’s line up for the next couple of weeks. Thank you both for coming and we’ll chat with you guys soon.

Good.

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